Best maintenance for rain gutters

[rosy]

Its summer time again, maybe its time to check or inspect our rain gutters and do the necessary repairs or replacements before the rainy season steps in since according to reports we will have a short summer this year and an early rainy season due to the La Nina phenomenon.

My questions are, What's the best way to prevent rain gutters from being eaten up by rust and How about newly installed rain gutters, are there any special kind of paint or coating for the inside part of the galvanized rain gutters? How about this custom made concrete rain gutters, do they still need special waterproofing paint?

Your inputs and advises will be much appreciated.
Thank you.

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I'll be replacing my front roof rain gutters soon before the rainy season comes in.

[violaine]

try installing plastic screens between the roofing and the gutter. this will prevent dried leaves from getting stuck and clog them..these screens are now commercially available, 12" in width and i forgot how long they are.

rivets will do for this job.

[balarila]

Yes. Number one rust cause is the prolonged wetting due to damp leaves that accumulate on the gutters.

I also apply epoxy-based paint on my gutters. They last a lot longer.

[rosy]

try installing plastic screens between the roofing and the gutter. this will prevent dried leaves from getting stuck and clog them..these screens are now commercially available, 12" in width and i forgot how long they are.

rivets will do for this job.

Yes I've done this already before and its really effective, actually I used the welded chicken wire with hole size of 1/2" X 1/2". Maybe my mistake then was I did not repaint the inside of the rain gutter. :rolleyes: Thanks doc v for your inputs. :p

[rosy]

Yes. Number one rust cause is the prolonged wetting due to damp leaves that accumulate on the gutters.

I also apply epoxy-based paint on my gutters. They last a lot longer.

Absolutely true in did, with those damp leaves stock on the gutters really would cause rotting or rusting of the galvanizes gutters. So I guess periodical cleaning of the gutters should be done specially if your house is surrounded by trees like ours.

Any special brand of epoxy based paint for the new galvanized gutters before I install it sir ding or any from nearby hardware stores?

Thanks too for your inputs. :p

[balarila]

I recall I just used Sphero. This is automotive primer. Not sure if there's any brand specific to roofing. The brand was recommended by a house painter so it is just based on his experience and not on any technical knowledge. Please feel free to debunk me if this approach is wrong.

[rosy]

Ok then I'll just visit the paint store near our place and talk to the owner/manager if the Sphero brand will work as a good coating for the new rain gutters.

Thanks again.

[balarila]

Forgot to warn you about epoxy paint. They dry so quickly and even more so on a hot day. Best to paint early in the morning when gutters are cool but make sure they're dry. Painting under the heat if the sun makes the epoxy paint cure fast and you'd end up using lots of brushes. Mix a small amount at a time. Use dirt-cheap brushes.

[zepol]

This concrete gutter's watertight after using flintkote:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6089/6119318801_833a70171d_m.jpg

But in a year, the bitumen's gone!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6192/6119861914_916739d015_m.jpg

The contractor did a bad job, leaving the chb exposed to the elements. I'm going to have this fixed, palitada, waterproofing, the works. Then another layer of bitumen. I think it's the UV damage that kills the bitumen, they recommend aluminum paint over the bitumen in these situations, but i wonder if it's cost effective.

[jarod]

Please do post your works for that, some might be interested on the step-by-step process.

[bryant77]

@zepol

Shell Flintkote bitumen is not UV resistant. It serves as a primer only. You need to top coat it with shell flintkote Ultra with Fiber Mesh, then put concrete topping.

[joey81]

You also might want to consider Boysen Acqua Epoxy

http://www.eboysen.com/epoxy.html
(http://www.eboysen.com/epoxy.html)

UV resistant, according to the manufacturer. Bought a couple of 4-liter cans, around 900 each. Haven't had the chance to apply it yet.

[zepol]

@joey81
I have a feeling the aqua epoxy isn't for roofs and gutters. It's uv and water resistant, but the uv and water on roofs are something else.

@bryant
So it's OK to palitada on top of the bitumen? That would be convenient, since I have to palitada the sides and tops of the gutters anyway. I'm sure cement provides very good uv resistance hehe.

But in the long run, will i have problems digging out that palitada when the time comes to re-apply bitumen? Or does the bitumen layer separate the concrete topping from the underlying concrete, so that nakapatong lang yung mga layers and they're easy to remove? If i understand correctly, the concrete topping is just there to prevent erosion and sun damage?

I'm toying with the idea of putting the bitumen coat as you described, then laying old vinyl tiles on them prior to the concrete topping. That way, when the time comes, it won't be a big deal to remove the topping so that i can refresh the bitumen layer. It's a crazy idea but maybe it'll pay off 5 or 10 years later

Thanks

[zepol]

This thread seems relevant...
http://www.pinoyhandyman.com/showthread.php?t=114&page=3

[zepol]

concrete gutter repair
first step, remove spalled concrete, then re palitada (with sahara mixed into the plaster)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6166/6164097337_4a2a134d38.jpg
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6164583018_1d23c3d5da.jpg

after the repairs:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6173/6164098779_8495b021f8_b.jpg

Once that's cured, i'll prime it with bitumen

[rosy]

BRO zepol,

he he he he he, napaka lapad naman pala ng rain gutters mo ah, anung tawag dyan ? (lower your voice )

RHA A A A A I I I I N N N N GHU U U U U T T T T E E E E E R R R R R R ???????? , ha ha ha ha



-------------------------------

Bro, just making you laugh, he he h he

[zepol]

@ rosy
big gutter, big problems hehe. Here's one, exposed structural steel in the rain gutter - i need to fix this in a hurry!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6164977990_760f71df48.jpg

The truth is a lot of the problems occurred because of shortcuts made 10 years ago. It's so tempting for workers/contractors to cut corners if they think no one will actually check their work, so I learned to crawl in celings, and over roofs with the workers to see for myself.

Would you believe that big ALULOD had overflow problems? At first i thought it was just the downspouts, but I found the real reason:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6174/6164491445_4b6146a800.jpg

Those are 2 3" drains from the neighbor's roof, discharging directly onto my rooft! Shortcut nanaman! No wonder my roof was damaged and my gutters overflowing.

I talked to the neighbors who had no idea it was like that, they were wondering why water kept seeping out their firewall. Turns out that bitin din yung flashing sa side nila, so the rain discharge also seeped into their partition walls. Now they're mad at their contractor as well.

[rosy]

Bro zepol,

haven't you tried the THOROSEAL products ?, it might just help and solve your seepage problem dyan sa laki mong gutters.

Bro, you amazes me, you really do with your cunning expertise, am so glad kasama ka namin dito sa PHM.


CHEERS and GOOD LUCK sa mga projects mo.

[zepol]

@rosy
THOROSEAL? Yeah, I heard about that from my worker. They use that on top of bitumen for bathrooms, under topping. I'll try it out.

bro, wala akong expertise! I just ask for advice, read what's available, and try to make sense of it all. :)

[rosy]

@ rosy
big gutter, big problems hehe. Here's one, exposed structural steel in the rain gutter - i need to fix this in a hurry!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6170/6164977990_760f71df48.jpg

The truth is a lot of the problems occurred because of shortcuts made 10 years ago. It's so tempting for workers/contractors to cut corners if they think no one will actually check their work, so I learned to crawl in celings, and over roofs with the workers to see for myself.

Would you believe that big ALULOD had overflow problems? At first i thought it was just the downspouts, but I found the real reason:
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6174/6164491445_4b6146a800.jpg

Those are 2 3" drains from the neighbor's roof, discharging directly onto my rooft! Shortcut nanaman! No wonder my roof was damaged and my gutters overflowing.

I talked to the neighbors who had no idea it was like that, they were wondering why water kept seeping out their firewall. Turns out that bitin din yung flashing sa side nila, so the rain discharge also seeped into their partition walls. Now they're mad at their contractor as well.





OK OK OK, IF YOU INSIST YOU HAVE NO EXPERTISE,on what you are doing, then so much for that but then bro zepol, looking closely on your last photo, I pressume that high wall is a firewall of some sort of your neighbor and the green roofing is your house. Looking very closely at the picture you have encircled two objects from the top and I guess they are PVC pipes, yung labasan ng tubig ulan sa kanila, wow ha,madunong ang contratista na gumawa nyan, e labas ng kanilang tubig ulan ay deretso sa bubung mo at rain gutters that is why you are having floodings on your gutters.

Bro let us hope the owner of that house or building does not know the situation, kasi there is a law against this kind of construction. If you could get hold of a book on civil laws and code, it is there under the construction of facilities and that even rain water should not be permitted to flow from the roof out to the side of the other property owner. Try getting a copy from National Book Store so you may read and understand the whole content.

You can demand from them to fix it themselves since nakaka perwisyo sila.

[zepol]

@ rosy
hehe, I just don't want anyone to blindly take my advice because I might be wrong. I'm pretty confident in my decisions, but iba na ang may experience.

Yeah, you got the picture right. 3 inch pipes dropping down 20 feet onto my roof. You can see the new GI sheeting where the water damage must have been worst. I had ceiling damage, rotten ceiling supports, and even worse, corrosion in the steel trusses as a result. Bad trip talaga, but I'm giving the neighbors a chance to do the right thing. Thanks for the support!

I read up on thoroseal. For bathrooms, they used flintkote, overlayed with thoraseal (presumably the hyrdaulic cement). I'm not sure if it's cost effective, given the size of the gutters. The bitumen should do the job, problema lang is uv damage and possibly erosion.

My plan is to do as bryant suggested. A second layer of flintkote, then fabric. Then another layer of flintkote. Before the last layer dries, i'll drive some sand onto it's surface, then apply a very thin layer of concrete. The thinner the better, since one day the bitumen and concrete will have to be removed and replaced. I hope it's 10 years from now or later :)

[zepol]

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6165/6165578072_0f008fccc4.jpg

Now I might be wrong, but I don't think it was a stroke of genius to have a roof truss inside a rain gutter. That encircle piece of steel is one end of a 15 meter roofing truss. The threaded rods fasten it to the structural concrete via steel plate. I shudder to think of the consequences of having those rust away, since that will involve having to tear down a lot of walls just to access the other ends...

This is a tricky situation. Water in the gutter can permeate into the concrete, and wet the steel plate. The flintkote does a good job of waterproofing, but needs a concrete topping to protect it. However, I think it's best if the threaded rods and plates are not encased in concrete, because in case the waterproofing fails or water gets in at any point, mabababad nanaman ang steel sa tubig. Plus, it's impossible to inspect the steel once it's nabaon.

I'm contemplating on having the palitada immediately around the steel removed, so that the steel can be painted regularly. However, without that palitada, if the gutter overflows again, it will overflow inside into the ceiling.

I will have to think this one through. I'm sure magagawan yan ng paraan. But in my experience, 'gawan ng paraan' is expensive in the long run.

[bryant77]

Why dont you try Castle Waterproofing. I tried this sa bathroom ng Sister-in-Law ko. We conducted 24 hrs flood test walang tagas.

For a 3 sq.m bathroom. I spent the ff:
1 qrt - castle primer x P419.75
2 qrt - castle topcoat x 749.75

Total = P1919.25 (Medyo mahal nga lang.)

To know more about the product.
http://www.castlewaterproof.com.ph/index.htm

We are going to use this again sa other bathroom nila.

[zepol]

Why dont you try Castle Waterproofing. I tried this sa bathroom ng Sister-in-Law ko. We conducted 24 hrs flood test walang tagas.

For a 3 sq.m bathroom. I spent the ff:
1 qrt - castle primer x P419.75
2 qrt - castle topcoat x 749.75

Total = P1919.25 (Medyo mahal nga lang.)


Thanks, I'll investigate. Kaso lang, my gutters will need around 150sq feet of waterproofing. At some point, it might be more cost effective to re apply bitumen semiannually, hehe.

[bryant77]

Thanks, I'll investigate. Kaso lang, my gutters will need around 150sq feet of waterproofing. At some point, it might be more cost effective to re apply bitumen semiannually, hehe.

Based on my computation you will spend P9-10K using Castle Waterproofing with the given area (150 sq.ft)

[zepol]

I think this does the job:
I rehabilitated a cemented-over downspout, increasing the drainage by 50%. Furthermore, I added an overflow pipe - just in case an extremely heavy rainfall coincides with high tide. In that event, the pipe ensures that the water level in the gutter never gets too high. Di bale nang umapaw into the balcony, basta not into the ceiling.

3 coats of bitumen were then added. I didn't flood test, but we observed that after the first coat, the leaking was already eliminated.

While the third layer was still wet, we pressed waterproofing membrane into the corners and especially onto the inner wall of the gutter where very porous chb and mortar was used ( don't ask me why).

Once that was dry, 4th layer of flintkote was painted on top of the membrane. I didn't use fg4, just the stuff i found at the local wilcon. Anyway the membrane is there to give the bitumen some tensile strength in case cracks in the underlying concrete form. Malamang overkill na actually.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6170872170_358a075fb8_z.jpg

Next step is to flatten those folds in the membrane, and embed some sand onto the still-soft bitumen. Then a thin layer of concrete topping goes on top. The concrete is there to protect the bitumen from sun and erosion. The thinner the better. My hope is that when the time comes to redo the waterproofing, the underlying fabric will make the topping easier to remove.

I decided to not use any waterproofing with the topping, not even sahara. It's not just the additional expense, I figured it doesn't make sense in this situation.
1.) if i had any doubts as to whether the underlying bitumen was enough, i shouldn't apply the topping anyway.
2.) the critical thing is to ensure that the water level doesn't reach the soft mortar halfway up the gutter. The downspouts and overflow pipe take care of that. The mortar itself was aggressively waterproofed, but in the end this area should not be subject to water ponding anymore.
3) the rest of the waterproofing is overkill, more to protect the concrete gutter from water damage
5) i had the underlying concrete overlain with sahara anyway hehe

[rosy]

Zebol, bro,

That's cool, you were able to fix your concrete gutteSr but then what about those two down spouts of your neighbor? they are still there and its still rainy season and still if it rains cats and dogs your roofs will still take the pounding of the rain water coming down from those pipes.

I can just imagine the loud noise or sounds when those water coming from their pipes spout falls on your roof, maybe its as if you are being bombarded by fire trucks. he he he he he , bro I was just curious.


Again CHEERS and LOTS OF LUCK !!!!! :goodluck: :D :D :D

[ossie]

or, ask them to pay per gallon of rain water coming from their properties, Php2.50 perhaps :D

[joey81]

or, ask them to pay per gallon of rain water coming from their properties, Php2.50 perhaps :D

Syempre may royalty si ossie. Idea nya, eh.

[zepol]

possible that those pipes are pasingawan sa bathroom. i have to wait till it rains to be sure.
Posted via PHM Mobile

[zepol]

Recent rains have shown the gutter to be watertight. Here it is, bitumen underneath a thin topping. The sides will likewise be covered with a thin topping to protect the waterproofing, then the remaining surfaces will be painted once the concrete's cured (28 days daw, but i'll wait longer to be sure).

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6196/6209470651_8d8461eddf_z.jpg