Electric Power Conservers: Scam or No Scam?

[houseband]

Everytime i watch those infomercials in various home shopping networks in television, i am always tempted to buy those gadgets the sellers claim to save about 15-25% of your electric bills.

parang Taiwanese yung products and supposed to work by plugging it in any electrical outlet. they are even showing some sort of electronic meters revealing that electricity being used at the moment decreases to a certain extent...

are these gadgets legit? can we actually save electricity using these?

i calculate kasi that by using this gadget, the gadget can pay for itself in 1- 2 months only! my electric bill per kasi ranges from 5 - 6K pesos a month.

so are these gadgets, scam or no scam?

banker?

[nicolodeon]

My mother-in-law bought two of those types of gadgets 2-3 years ago, when it first came out. I don't know about the others but in spite of having spent around 5-7K on those devices, my mom-in-law has yet to reap any significant benefit from those two gadgets that are supposed to provide her with electricity bill savings.

[houseband]

so scam siya, nicolodeon?

the ads really look very convincing!

does the DTI have the duty of testing such products and protect the public from such false claims ? the ads kasi claim the products have all these certifications from various agencies in different countries...

[manggyver]

Believe me, i am managing a sizable manufacturing plant and those who offered various power savers failed miserably to our test. We should be a good catch, were using almost half-million in power cost.

[houseband]

thanks manggyver!

so if they "failed miserably" in your tests means only one thing -- that these 'power savers' are just overpriced electric-powered floor decors.

salamat sa advice... will just switch the channels everytime i see their infomercials :)

[nicolodeon]

so scam siya, nicolodeon?

the ads really look very convincing!

does the DTI have the duty of testing such products and protect the public from such false claims ? the ads kasi claim the products have all these certifications from various agencies in different countries...


Hmm...I don't think so because if hey did have some DTI approval, I would've seen a sticker of some kind on the box or on the units themselves.

[2diy4]

The only thing that works for me when I buy a new appliance like aircon or ref is to check the EER, or energy efficiency ratio which is mandated to be attached to new appliances for sale. This is a yellow sticker that clearly shows a number. A higher number, the more efficient in the use. My aircon which has an electronic thermostat, thermometer and timer has an EER of 12, a good number. Some of the older ones have 8 or 9. In other words, I save up to 1/3 the electricity with this aircon rather than using one of the older ones.

[ribbit]

hey peeps. first time post here. :)

about those energy saving devices, let's just put it this way, if they are really that effective, even without advertising, they should already be a common household appliance. by word of mouth, this product should be an instant hit.

if it really reduced your power consumption, it's because it probably switches the electricity on and off repeatedly in a fraction of a second, simply put. that's of course, in my own opinion. ;)

[tscotom]

FYI,

In the U.S. and E.U., all their fluorescent and similar type of light fixtures all have a built in capacitor that 'smooths' out the voltage/current and this allows these fixtures to function in such a way that you save electricity.

Have opened one of those power saver gadgets for a friend who says he has saved money with this both in his bookstore in GreenHills and in his house by Santolan. He has 2 units and the switches were not of good quality so they burned out (failed), so all I did was to connect one wire to the other.

All that is inside is a big capacitor and that is it !! If this is the same as all those little capacitors in all those fixtures in the U.S & E.U., then perhaps there might be some truth to this.

It may cost an 'arm and a leg' at first, but am not sure that such gadgets are all rip-offs. Buyer beware though !! Ask about warranties.

P.B.G.A. :)

[junn2006]

meron na rin po sa malls nito. me mga demo sila on front of Ace n Handyman. tpos me 2 month money back warranty pa sila.

around 2k ata cost.

[2diy4]

Capacitors in the line are power factor correctors. When you use big induction motors like those in factories or aircon compressors in big buildings, the power factor becomes less than ideal and the electric meter shows that you are consuming more electricity than you are actually using. A big capacitor is put on the line to correct the power factor.

The ballast in transformer type fluorescent lamps also affect the power factor, and small capacitors can be used to correct the power factor.

Specifying the correct capacitor is involved. I don't think that you can have a one-size fits all approach. This is probably the reason why some people experience savings and some not.

[Raisedroof!]

Yes it is a scam if you are expecting that the device, being peddled as energy saving one, actually cut electric power without affecting the performance of your home appliance.

But no, it is not a scam, if you consider the savings incurred with the various electrical loads (usually inductive or motors/transformers) in your house. You can verify it yourself by looking at your electric bill on that part that says power factor correction in percentage. Many houses do not need that device when power factor stands between 95% to 99% but will need such kind of a device if you see that the power factor correction stated in the Meralco bill is lower than 90%. You will note that a corresponding amount is subtracted when it is above 90%, (spelled as savings), but an amount is added if it's below that percentage (spelled as added expense).

[bbn]

I don't think residential users are charge for having a low power factor, only industrial users are.

[2diy4]

Now that we are on the subject of power factor correction, any rules of thumb on the size of capacitor to use for a certain type of inductive load, say a 1 hp aircon?

What type of capacitors should be used? Can motor start and motor run capacitors be used? Where is the capacitor placed, across the line or in series with the load?

[bbn]

The capacitors are placed in parallel with the load. The total amount of capacitance depends on the load. Typically, I believe the capacitor bank is sized based on the nominal load, the actual instantaneous load of course varies.

I am not 100% sure but I believe that one would be doing is exactly the same as what is done when one compensates a probe of an oscilloscope.

Again I'm guessing but yes I think starting capacitors will do.

If you guys need more info, I'll try to get my friend who does this kind of stuff to join in. But like I said unless the power utility is measuring your power factor and charging for it, there is really no need.

[Raisedroof!]

There is no need to guess, just look at your meralco bill to confirm.

[bbn]

Guess at what?

[VtEC]

IMO, scam or not, electric conservation still depends on the end user. ;D

[fake_silhouette]

it actually works but it depends on what you actually have
it works best with motors (be it armature or induction or whatever)

it doesn't work much on light, electronics and heaters(not sure) though

if you run many motor based appliance ea(washing machines, refrigerator, aircons, electricfans etc.) then its well worth it

its theory: well to put it to simply
it lessens power flux (wehn you start a motor, it consumes more electricity. in short it spikes, try the tester)

i don't know how to explain HOW it works but can show it actual through a multitester (im no engineer... i only have some interest in tools)
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[john-jo]

It helps when the load is inductive in nature (e.g. motors and coils within the appliance) because the initial surge is strong enough to cause the electric meter to speed-up instantaneously altho momentarily.

A capacitor will correct the situation by dumping its stored energy within, and pass it on to the inductive load. The wires connecting them together should be as short as possible.

In engineering terms-That way the power factor is corrected because the lagging voltage phase catches up with current phase. The reason it doesn't work with heaters and resistive loads, is because both current and voltages phases are in line with each other from the power source.

[john-jo]

Capacitor banks are normally used in industrial accounts because of cost and size. And also because some factories using a lot of motors, maximizing its effectiveness and justifies expense.

It is therefore less effective for other factories that doesn't have such type of loads, nor for family use.

[fake_silhouette]

now that's a better explanation
it wouldn't have any better

anyway that's what i've been trying to say but couldn't :)
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[bobbypage1]

Sirs,

If i am running 5 freezers 24/7 plus the regular appliances plus some power tools, would those power saving gadgets sold at malls help?

My electric bill says that i consume an average of 1000KW / month.

Need some advise.

Thanks

[beebeenator]

Ramon

our bill is more expensive than yours. although an aircon is running 24/7 and two refs. then another aircon for 8 hours

omni has a new product coming out for MEASURING actual consumption per appliance. you plug it to the socket then plug the appliance to it. Saw it at a demo and not sure if its being sold for th epublic yet

we could use that to quantify if those power savers really work, now i just need to get my hands on one......

[bobbypage1]

Hi Bee,

yes sir, i agree with you on the bills.

[john-jo]

Many of the bigger malls have those consignors selling power saving gadgets and are wiling to change item (no, normally they don't return cash) in case you are not satisfied with their product.

You can always challenge those people (from the supplier/ consignor) giving demo that you will return the item if their claim is not up to par. Don't forget to ask all details and questions before making the purchase and get the name of that Demo guy or gal.

Then you need to decide within 7days if you're truly satisfied or return the item. just make sure there are no scratches nor damaged sections and have a good reason/ explanation for the customer service. :)

[jepps137]

For Residential users, power factor correction is useless since it will not reflect on your bill.
I have actually bought a consumer grade PowerMeter just to prove my theory that these power savers are useless.
You can search in sulit for the device I have. search for Kill-a-watt in sulit

[timber715]

can you fill us in on your theory? would be nice to know why it works or not...

[timber715]

did you mean this meter? (http://www.**************/index.php/view+classifieds/id/1764330/Digital+Wattmeter+/+Power+Cost+Monitor?referralKeywords=Kill+a+watt)

[jepps137]

Yes. that is the meter.

Anyway, I had a hunch that the 'powersavers' are just power factor correction devices. Didnt want to spend money just to open it and see what's inside. I had the chance to borrow similar devices from friends, and when I opened it, a capacitor is connected in parallel to the terminals. the running lights is a different story, it's just for show.
ANyway, in electrical systems, there is such a thing as APPARENT POWER and REAL POWER.
Meralco charges every consumer the REAL POWER consumption.
When Apparent power is greater than the real power, inefficiency is present. And this ratio between real power and apparant power is called PF or power factor. For residential and commercial users, Meralco does not penalize us for inefficiency or low power factor. This is different though for industrial users. Meralco penalizes them for not being efficient.
So power factor correction in our houses does not affect the monthly billing.
Also, most appliances with motors have their power factors already corrected. A capacitor is usually used to correct power factor because most inefficiencies are cause by an inductive load (ie motors, ballasts) and a capacitive correction brings back efficiency to almost 100%.

[timber715]

does that mean it helps anyway but since we are not penalized we don't need them? how about if I constantly run my routers, ts sander and other powertools (w/c is a daily thing), would it benefit me?

[jepps137]

Benefit for the residential user? none.
Anyway, by being efficient, the power provider (meralco) does not have to spend on line upgrades.

A 100% Efficient system will have the Apparant Power = Real Power. which means, (apparent power) current = (real power) current.

A unefficient system will have (apparent power) current > (real power) current.

Although we, residential users, only pay for the (real power) current, Meralco has to put up wired that is capable to handle (apparent power) currents. So it would be costlier for them to use thicker wires or perform upgrades because some heavy user is inefficient. So they penalize the heavy users, which are usually industrial users.

So If you are thinking of the 'billing' benefits, in theory there are none. But if you look at it as 'wiring' benefit, maybe there is. But am sure your house wiring can already accomodate your motor usage. :).