Bending wood

[bbn]

How do you guys bend wood?

I've been pouring boiling water over the wood and then gently coaxing them.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0059_640x480.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0120_640x480.jpg

Broke one try to bend it cold
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0118_640x480.jpg

[timber715]

I haven't made anything that required me to use bent wood, but I think building a steamer trunk or box would be reasonable if you need to bend plenty or often.

[spyghost]

i saw an episode in new yankee workshop where he bent wood. he has a huge steamer though.

[bbn]

Thanks guys. I had the same thoughts however there is an opinion that tropical wood will not bend by steaming. They seem to based on what I've been doing though from what I seen it is not quite the same.

[timber715]

btw, are you gluing the bent wood or you making a form?

[chisel]

If steaming is not an option I usually re saw the wood about 1/8” thick enough for bending glue it and laminate it to a form, much stable than steam bending.

[timber715]

If steaming is not an option I usually re saw the wood about 1/8” thick enough for bending glue it and laminate it to a form, much stable than steam bending.
without a steamer, that is the best option imo...

[bbn]

Actually, that's already what I'm doing. The strips shown will be laminated one on top of the other so I get curved sticks that are each 20 mm thick.

I heard before that rattan can be bent with a blow torch. Is this true?

[guad]

I would be interested in something like this steamer (http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Products-282018-1-Gallon-Wallpaper/dp/B0009XEL4O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1273047172&sr=1-1), instead of having to improvise one. I wonder if these are available locally.

http://www.wagnerspraytech.com/portal/pics/spraytech/products/powerPrep/705-w14_product.jpg (http://www.wagnerspraytech.com/portal/wagner_705_spray,43321,747.html)

[workbench]

From what I've read, to be able to steam bend, you need to expose the wood to the hot steam for a good duration of time. This helps the heat and moisture penetrate deeper into the wood to soften the fibers and help in the bending process. Maybe we can get together for an experiment to try this.

[bbn]

Here is the result. Some springback but no problem really.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0121_640x480.jpg

[timber715]

I have been wanting to make a project out of bent wood, just not considered steamed... so how about a group project? problem is who gets it? must be the person who spends for the materials and merienda... :) hahahaha

[moji]

lncc,

What material do you use as your mold? Is that plywood?

[bbn]

Yes the thing the strips are being bent to has plywood sides with fiberglass laminated to the inside of each. The side are spaced by solid lumber blocks. The "mold" is the actual unit into which the strips will be bonded. The strips will provide additional area to bond the bottom panels which are three layers of 3 mm plywood. These "things" are the outer arms of the outriggers. They will take a lot of stress so they have to be built solid. In fact after I close the whole thing, a couple of layers of structural fiberglass will have to be bonded to the outer surfaces.

[balarila]

Sharing my experience on bending wood. Hope someone finds it useful.

On the boat I am building, the stem (or bow, the curved front of the boat), composed of the stem and false stem, as well as the floors (the curved wood frame at the bottom onto which the keel and lower hull is attached) require some wood bending challenges.

First, I cut thin (5mm) strips of wood. The idea is that these strips of wood are easier to bend. Glued together when bent, they will form the stem and floors.

Went early to the palengke to get some garden hose and a "takure" (kettle). Didn't go for the fancy whistling-when-boiling kettle but, instead went for the old-fashioned big pot.

I improvised a steambox by screwing together from my already-cut chipboards meant for the strongback (boat jig) and set things up:

http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/IMG00046-20100619-1124/906726051_q5nHy-M.jpg

The hose goes into the window into our "dirty" kitchen where the water-filled kettle went to boil.
http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/IMG00047-20100619-1124/906727549_n8n5d-M.jpg
http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/IMG00049-20100619-1125/906728716_zrriG-M.jpg

Ater about an hour of this, I noticed that the steam was not going into the box. Instead, it kept spilling out of the kettle's lid, despite various attempts of keeping it shut (weight, clamp...).

So, I thought, maybe the kettle was too far from the steambox. I then commandeered my maid's clay stove and did this:

http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/IMG00050-20100619-1226/906729968_pZpom-M.jpg

That handkerchief made for a tight fit on the lid.

After about an hour more of fiddling with the fire, still the steam would not come out!

I decided to open the kettle and see if there's something wrong inside it. Only then did I realize that the kettle I got had its spout connected to the near-bottom of the pot. Since the pot is filled with water, naturally, the steam would never find its way into the spout (the inside end of the spout being underwater)! And I thought I was a smart man!

Should've gone for that whistling kettle.

So, spilled out the water until the level in the pot is just below the spout. It worked.

[balarila]

Despite the steaming, it was still tough to bend the wood. Here's the stem and the floor strips.

http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/MG2368/906724985_he7Vd-M.jpg

I progressively pulled on that blue rope that bends the stem and, after a few days of leaving the assembly alone, the wood "relaxed" into a bent shape.

Glued the stem and the floors.

http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/MG2381/922457293_Pfsri-M.jpg

In photo is my "padawan" holding the glued stem. The curved planks by his feet are the steam-bent planks for the false-stem which would be glued using the stem as a guide. Note that. despite steam bending and clamping the planks in a curved state for a week, the planks still straighten a bit once unclamped. The remaining bend is now the job of epoxy.

Here's the false-stem just glued. Under the polyethelene wraps is the stem which I used as a guide.

http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/MG2384/922457692_3Z3mP-M.jpg

One lesson I learned from this process is that the wood shifts laterally from the clamp. Epoxy, when wet is a lubricant so the stips shifted and slid so I had to make sure I mallet them into place. Despite some tamping down, they shifted a bit so that edges are not completely aligned. In hindsight, I should've stuck some dowels.

No problem. Just planed the ones sticking and grout with epoxy the troughs. Good thing I ripped the planks a bit wider so I could plane down into the troughs.

Here's the finished stem attached to the boat's frame:

http://balarila.smugmug.com/Other/Boatbuilding/2011012311382807/1165208376_nhx8M-M.jpg

[jarod]

Very nice narration and pictures, these are for keeps!

[glen1234s]

Sir,

I still remember how my lolo ended up with bending wood or having a bent wood effect

first is making a pattern of the bend and cutting the wood following the pattern using a bandsaw.

second is cutting the wood to thin strips and glue each strip back to each other while clamped onto a bent frame.

I did not see him do the hot watter/steamer technique...

I guess you end up with the technique you know works best for you.

good luck...

How do you guys bend wood?

I've been pouring boiling water over the wood and then gently coaxing them.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0059_640x480.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0120_640x480.jpg

Broke one try to bend it cold
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g227/lcasambre/W17/IMG_0118_640x480.jpg

[balarila]

Sir,
I still remember how my lolo ended up with bending wood or having a bent wood effect
first is making a pattern of the bend and cutting the wood following the pattern using a bandsaw.
second is cutting the wood to thin strips and glue each strip back to each other while clamped onto a bent frame.
I did not see him do the hot watter/steamer technique...
I guess you end up with the technique you know works best for you.
good luck...

Yes, thin strip lamination works well for very thin strips and/or slight bends with flexible wood. In my case, my thicknesser can only plane down to 5mm strips, too thick for bending Lauan into the almost-90-degree bend I wanted to make so I had to steam it.

[violaine]

@balarila,

i assumed you are using the lighter white lauan..got some 2 x 4 x 14 red lauans and they are really heavy, solid wood, i dont know what to do with them yet.

[balarila]

@balarila,
i assumed you are using the lighter white lauan..got some 2 x 4 x 14 red lauans and they are really heavy, solid wood, i dont know what to do with them yet.

I used red lauan. Well, pinkish, to be exact. And, yes, they're solid. That's why, even after about an hour of steaming, still required some strenuous work to bend about a dozen strips together.

After gluing in epoxy resin, some spokeshaving, and sanding; the surprising result is that I can hardly see the strips. Unless you look really closely, you'd think the bow was carved out of a single piece of wood.

[violaine]

if you are using the red lauan i wonder now how your TS have survived the 24 feet long ripping job..i guess, you rigged it with some nice blade.
:eek:

[balarila]

On my 2nd blade before it died. Just used the TCT thin kerf blade one finds at Wilcon (can't recall brand). Couldn't wait for the Freud blades from Amazon; I have a ripping and a gen purpose blades in transit.

I'm now praying my thicknesser won't die too.

[pilo_kulet]

hello,

I'am new at wood working. But what i want to do is design a pair of headphones out of wood.

So what i want to know is?
-what is the best type of wood for bending?
-i want it light cause it would be very difficult if something heavy sits on you head.
-easy to bend
-and if possible a nice light color. I think it would look cool with a clear varnish.
-and where can i buy such wood?
-if possible easy to carve too.
-what process should i use?
-how to protect the wood against the elements?

Thank you very much can you guys help me out..please it is a project for my brother before his birthday. thank you very much any help would be much appreciated

[balarila]

That will be some extreme bending! The radius of curvature is just a few inches. I have not bent wood that much so can't say if it's possible. Also, I worked with lauan only on bending so can't comment on which wood is most pliant.
If it can be done, you will have to cut wood in very thin slats then laminate them. On the bright side, your steam box won't have to be too large.

That seems like a challenging and interesting project. Do lrt us know how it turns out. I'd probably try it out myself one day.
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[zepol]

bent some 1" half-round before, i steamed them in an old pvc pipe, kettle in one end ball of rag in the other.
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[balarila]

bent some 1" half-round before, i steamed them in an old pvc pipe, kettle in one end ball of rag in the other.
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What was the radius of curvature?

[fortnapz]

the only wood appropriate for extreme bending is " rattan".

[frankboase]

A very interesting project you have there BBN,
I goggled "bending wood"and there are some good ideas the beauty of the internet eh.
And yes if your going to give a workshop on the subject I love to attend.

[zepol]

What was the radius of curvature?

radius was that of a big palangan which we used as a guide. roughly 1.5 feet. it was used to edge a plywood tabletop so we glued and nailed it on while still damp. i had a table saw then and we used it to make relief cuts as well.
the carpenter initially tried to do it with relief cuts alone but it didn't work so we resorted to steam.

i saw some pics of plywood being molded into all sorts of shapes, but the mold needed was a big job/expense - something for mass production rather than one-off projects.

the steam pvc tech i picked up from fine woodworking. i also watched a show where they bent wood to make wheels. steam din ang gamit.
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[arkiilutz]

HI im A newnbie, Yes you can use use torch to bend wood. unfortunately most wood doesnt have continous grain like rattan kaya limiied ang elasticity nya. laminating is still d best option. how do u guys upload a video to this site i have a collection on this subject

[jbarot]

i bend wood all the time with my hobby. although the thickest i've bent was 4mm.

i used to bend wood using a pipe, but now i use this bending machine:
http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h422/jbarot/lacote/IMG_0337.jpg

it uses a heating blanket and a temp control (note the oven thermometer. a wedding present that i asked for hehehe)
http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h422/jbarot/lacote/IMG_0338.jpg

in the pic i bent maple. very easy to bend.
http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h422/jbarot/lacote/IMG_0339.jpg

http://i1109.photobucket.com/albums/h422/jbarot/lacote/IMG_0352.jpg

i have friends in the states that uses a product named "supersoft". they say it works very well, but i never bothered trying it because i'm ok with the procedure i have.

[pilo_kulet]

i've researched umm is using ash possible? maganda kasi ung kulay e. (sorry newbie) i talked to my uncle he suggested plywood. Im just curious will plywood have a good finish (i just wanted to use a clear varnish) i want a light color sort of whittish. Sir's do you happen to know what type of wood is used for grade school home economics projects?

i atleast want to try a lot of wood types so that i could try and test it.

so mapple 4mm = noted
sir jbsrot ung mapple po ba flexible? i want to design a pair of headphones e so its needs to be flexible since your going to put it on and take it off. sir ung machine po ginawa lang ninyo?

sir arkilutz wow videos...i could learn a lot from that. I hope you can post it...or sir post it on youtube then bigay nalang po niya ung URL address samin...marami pong salamat

sir balarila of course i'll post it when its finished actually sir meron na po akong prototype made out of balsa wood. kaya lang i dont know if its strong enough to use for the headband..so i only made a testing for the ear part...

[timber715]

another luthier in the house, nice work Jbarot, do you do thid as a hobby or does it go to the market? seems it must go to the market since your jig would be costly just to do 1 or 2. anyway, thank you for sharing, we look forward to a thread of your guitar builds...
cheers

[pilo_kulet]

Sirs...do you happen to know any stores near QC were i can buy quality wood? thanks

[jbarot]

thanks guys.

maple is very flexible. funny thing is when you touch it and feel how rigid it feels you won't think that it will bend. but the only thing with maple is that since it is light colored, it is prone to scorching. that's why i cover my maple planks with tin foil before bending.

i bought this bending machine years ago when i lived in the states. the biggest investment i have, besides the woods. i love it. when you bend with a pipe you can get hurt, or you have to keep the wood under even pressure when you bend it. kind of hard to do when its running at 200 degrees c. with the machine it keeps the pressure on thus keeping the shape, and it also acts as a mold. after bending i keep the wood in the machine overnight then heat it up again to stop spring back. but now i know more than before, this bending machine can be built diy.

@timber: thanks! i think i have made around 15 guitars. most of them have ended up as gifts to close friends and family. i have sold some as well, in fact i'm doing a few commissions right now. need to lol. maybe i will post a build thread one of these days...

[violaine]

thanks guys.

maple is very flexible. funny thing is when you touch it and feel how rigid it feels you won't think that it will bend. but the only thing with maple is that since it is light colored, it is prone to scorching. that's why i cover my maple planks with tin foil before bending.

i bought this bending machine years ago when i lived in the states. the biggest investment i have, besides the woods. i love it. when you bend with a pipe you can get hurt, or you have to keep the wood under even pressure when you bend it. kind of hard to do when its running at 200 degrees c. with the machine it keeps the pressure on thus keeping the shape, and it also acts as a mold. after bending i keep the wood in the machine overnight then heat it up again to stop spring back. but now i know more than before, this bending machine can be built diy.

@timber: thanks! i think i have made around 15 guitars. most of them have ended up as gifts to close friends and family. i have sold some as well, in fact i'm doing a few commissions right now. need to lol. maybe i will post a build thread one of these days...
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[violaine]

Iirc, the 2012nb thicknesser can plane down upto 1/8".
@jbarot,
Thanks for sharing your guitar build. Surely owyn will be delighted ti see the pics u posted!
V
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[jbarot]

Sirs...do you happen to know any stores near QC were i can buy quality wood? thanks

i know one in pasig that sells true mahogany. its on pioneer street just past the pioneer center before the stoplight on shaw. i dont know of any place in qc but the one in pasig i've been to and i like their stocks. and its true mahogany, not the "philippine mahogany" type

@volaine thanks for the kind words! now i want to post a build thread! lol

[timber715]

i know one in pasig that sells true mahogany. its on pioneer street just past the pioneer center before the stoplight on shaw. i dont know of any place in qc but the one in pasig i've been to and i like their stocks. and its true mahogany, not the "philippine mahogany" type

@volaine thanks for the kind words! now i want to post a build thread! lol
whats the difference between true mahogany and Philippine mahogany? you mean fake nanaman yung atin? :ninja:

[owyn]

*gets out of the lurker mode*

I sure do like seeing those as violane thinks so. (Nagustuhan ko rin na yung isang member, acquired a bandsaw so big, i'm almost can feel a hernia looking at it being moved, posted at cab1.)

To be candid medyo nahihiya nga akong magpakita muna at mag comment kase wala pa akong natatapos. Mahina talaga time-management ko and i don't like it. Will post when i have something meaningful to share.

Jbarot's posts sure pique my interest (hat's off that he's trying out the small bodied (lacote?) stuff.) Seriously, I've considered that maybe i should order a larrivee parlor from guitaradoptions- sort of like getting a lie-nielsen- get a standard from which to know how good it really can be.

WAS or GAS.... i can't do both *shakes head*

[jbarot]

true mahogany are members of the Meliaceae family species sweitenia.

honduran mahogany, sweitenia macrophylla is the most common. marcos had honduran mahogany trees planted in this country years and years ago, that's why we have it here. locally its called plantation mahogany, trade of it is restricted, and good thing we have supply here, albeit dwindling. so whenever i see a good plank of it available when i go to my hunting grounds i nab it hehehe

philippine mahogany is just a sweeping term to a number of mahogany looking woods but are not members of the meliaceae family. the most common ones here are meranti or lauan. madami pa. i like working with phil mahogany but i prefer the real deal because they're easier to work with. looks better too.

often i can tell if its true mahogany, often being the key term hehehe. it has a distinct color and texture.

@owyn: just build away my friend! nothing beats the feeling of strumming a guitar you have made yourself :)

[timber715]

Can you post some picture Jb?
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[jbarot]

Can you post some picture Jb?
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pics of what timber? my wood stash or my guitar projects? ok lang if you guys dont mind a lot of pics