Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

I'm not knowledgeable on this subject but am sure other members here are more than qualified to give advises. Hope they chime in.

From the attic picture you posted above what came to my mind was the use of spiral stairs to save on space but of course there will be drawbacks.

Let's wait for our other friends here to give their comments and suggestions.

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

We just completed a 6 month renovation where we have a loft/attic 3rd floor also. Forgive my lack of terminology but i will describe what we did as best as i can. we used steel c-channel beams spaced maybe 18-24 inches apart imbedded into the wall, the c-channel beams look like half an ibeam, but we used small ones maybe 4 inch or 3 inch? again i apologize for not being able to give accurate terms. for the attic floor we used marine plywood 3/4 inch and covered it with vinyl tiles, works fine, did that floor after doing the ceiling for 2nd floor so you can access what you need in the ceiling of the second floor from the floor of the 3rd floor. We used gypsum board 1/4 inch on ceiling of second floor with the thin framework pieces of aluminum? again i don't know the terminology and forgive me. I think the hardiflex as a floor might not be the best idea as the gaps and stuff could crack under strain or stress, the plywood will be more forgiving and if its marine plywood you won't have as much to be concerned about regarding termites. I hope this helps, this forum helped me a bunch when i was going through my renovation, am sure others will have their opinions also and perhaps are more informed than i.

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

Architect here.
Standard disclaimer: [COLOR="Red"]I do not have your actual design documents, most
especially your structural plans, and am going by a single photo of the
space you want to modify, so read what I post with caution.

Can I use the the light steel materials na ginamit ni Lite751 sa kanyang kisame

for the construction of our 2nd flr ceiling / attic flooring?

That^ is only good for framing your 2nd floor's ceiling, or vertical wall.
It won't support an attic floor. You're better off framing your attic like
nomastequila did, with 2x4 steel c-purlins or channels as floor-joists, the
joist-ends embedded in his walls.

The problem is that your walls are already finished.
Punching multiple new holes in a wall, to receive steel joist-ends, can be
a very bad idea with low-cost construction (I have to assume the worst,
sorry). To support your steel joists, you'd probably need to run a steel
angle corbel along 2 opposite walls, welding it to wall-embedded rebar
dowels. Then you could lay your joist-ends on top of the corbels, and
weld or bolt. What you use for joisting really depends on local prices and
availability: I have seen everything from angle bar to purlins (even square
tubular) utilized.

Then will use PLYWOOD para sa 2nd flr ceiling and HARDIFLEX for the attic flooring

Re ceiling material:
If you're using plywood for the ceiling, why even bother with Jea-Maxx?
Their product is designed to frame gypboard and other non-plywood
material. Generally, if you're using 1/4 mar-ply, the framing behind it will
be wood, usually 2x2. I haven't seen the advice you received elsewhere,
but if folks were urging you to go with metal ceiling-framing, they might
not have had a plywood ceiling in mind.

Re attic-flooring material:
Unless your ficem ("Hardiflex") panels are specifically made for flooring use,
they may fracture under shock loads (someone dropping a heavy object),
or even under normal dynamic cycle loads (regular foot-traffic). Granted,
we are talking about an ATTIC, but you don't seem to plan on using it in
the traditional sense of dead-storage space, based on your "ideal" photo:

The goal is to somehow we attain something near to this pic:

🙂
From your photo of the ACTUAL structure, you don't have a lot of area,
and especially height, to work with. JayL suggested a spiral staircase to
save on floorspace, but getting large materials (furniture, etc.) up/down
such stairs will be difficult. It does point to a compromise:

Use a spiral staircase for minimal footprint on the 2nd floor, then...
have the "attic" floor end where the roof slope brings the "attic" ceiling too
low, and install a railing so the "attic" 'looks down' on the 2nd floor: you may
be able to move large material (furniture, etc.) to/from the "attic" over the
said railing.

Remember that you don't have a lot of space to work with, and things
ALWAYS look more spacious on paper than when built. An "upper level
overlooking a lower floor" sounds all kinds of sexy, but reality can bite.

Good luck, plan carefully and be safe,
h.

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

why attic? ganda ng ceiling height oh. loft ang ilalagay ko dyan. :goodluck:

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

Well I guess Fielster would like to maximize some additional floor space considering the fact that his ceiling is kinda high, the flooring space he showed is somewhat a bit cramped, very limited space available in that floor.

1st to reply...

I'm not knowledgeable on this subject but am sure other members here are more than qualified to give advises. Hope they chime in.

From the attic picture you posted above what came to my mind was the use of spiral stairs to save on space but of course there will be drawbacks.

Let's wait for our other friends here to give their comments and suggestions.

Hmnn...spiral stairs? Will note that... Kapatid na JayL, salamat po sa initial reply... pagpalain kayo ng Dios!

Nice One!

we used steel c-channel beams spaced maybe 18-24 inches apart imbedded into the wall, the c-channel beams look like half an ibeam, but we used small ones maybe 4 inch or 3 inch? again i apologize for not being able to give accurate terms. for the attic floor we used marine plywood 3/4 inch and covered it with vinyl tiles, works fine, did that floor after doing the ceiling for 2nd floor so you can access what you need in the ceiling of the second floor from the floor of the 3rd floor. We used gypsum board 1/4 inch on ceiling of second floor with the thin framework pieces of aluminum? again i don't know the terminology and forgive me. I think the hardiflex as a floor might not be the best idea as the gaps and stuff could crack under strain or stress, the plywood will be more forgiving and if its marine plywood you won't have as much to be concerned about regarding termites. I hope this helps, this forum helped me a bunch when i was going through my renovation, am sure others will have their opinions also and perhaps are more informed than i.

I see... thanks-a-lot for the inputs kapatid na nomastequila... I'm very elated that someone who has recently had this project done recently has replied... I will be asking you a few more questions if you don't mind kapatid...

1.) Really am very grateful that you posted also the materials you had used... so I have noted them already...
> steel c-channel beams imbedded into the walls

2.) Ok po, I'll stick sa marine plywood sa attic flooring & gypsum board for the 2nd flr ceiling as advised...

3.) Is it possible kapatid kung PM mo ako if:
anong size nung 2nd flr/attic na pinagawan mo ng kisame/attic/loft at
magkano ang nagastos mo sa pagpapagawa? Kung pwede po sana as in detailed po yung price (i.e. steel beams price/labor etc.) para po may comparison ako...
pasencia na po sa abala kapatid! and my project area is only 20 sq.meters by the way...

Marami pong salamat sa pagtulong ninyo sa akin! :thanks:

Major Advise Here!

Architect here.
Standard disclaimer: [COLOR="Red"]I do not have your actual design documents, most
especially your structural plans, and am going by a single photo of the
space you want to modify, so read what I post with caution.

Yay :clap1: a professional is in! Thanks a lot kapatid for chipping-in! noted your advise...

That is only good for framing your 2nd floor's ceiling, or vertical wall.
It won't support an attic floor. You're better off framing your attic like
nomastequila did, with 2x4 steel c-purlins or channels as floor-joists, the
joist-ends embedded in his walls.

Noted this... I am really thankful that you pointed this out... I will integrate what sir nomastequila did with his project...

The problem is that your walls are already finished.
Punching multiple new holes in a wall, to receive steel joist-ends, can be
a very bad idea with low-cost construction (I have to assume the worst,
sorry).

> Looks like this will be the eventual plan since I already seen some homes in our area where they did this technique...

To support your steel joists, you'd probably need to run a steel
angle corbel along 2 opposite walls, welding it to wall-embedded rebar
dowels. Then you could lay your joist-ends on top of the corbels, and
weld or bolt. What you use for joisting really depends on local prices and
availability: I have seen everything from angle bar to purlins (even square
tubular) utilized.

Got this recorded Sir...

Re ceiling material:
If you're using plywood for the ceiling, why even bother with Jea-Maxx?
Their product is designed to frame gypboard and other non-plywood
material. Generally, if you're using 1/4 mar-ply, the framing behind it will
be wood, usually 2x2. I haven't seen the advice you received elsewhere,
but if folks were urging you to go with metal ceiling-framing, they might
not have had a plywood ceiling in mind.

> Great advise, yup, I'm intending to use gypboard for 2nd floor ceiling & marine plywood for the attic flooring...thanks kind sir!

Re attic-flooring material:
Unless your ficem ("Hardiflex") panels are specifically made for flooring use,
they may fracture under shock loads (someone dropping a heavy object),
or even under normal dynamic cycle loads (regular foot-traffic). Granted,
we are talking about an ATTIC, but you don't seem to plan on using it in
the traditional sense of dead-storage space, based on your "ideal" photo

> Your right sir I'm planning to use it as an extra room... they just call it "attic" here in
our area (but it turns out into a small room)though true attics are usually "dead-space storage rooms" Great point Sir... I'll be using marine plywood as suggested by nomastequila, scrap the hardiflex

From your photo of the ACTUAL structure, you don't have a lot of area, and especially height, to work with. JayL suggested a spiral staircase to
save on floorspace, but getting large materials (furniture, etc.) up/down
such stairs will be difficult. It does point to a compromise:

Use a spiral staircase for minimal footprint on the 2nd floor, then...
have the "attic" floor end where the roof slope brings the "attic" ceiling too
low, and install a railing so the "attic" 'looks down' on the 2nd floor: you may
be able to move large material (furniture, etc.) to/from the "attic" over the
said railing.

Kapatid na Horge I'm planning to use that "attic" as a separate 20sq.meter room although
the height is a bit low... hmnn... a spiral staircase? I'll have a bit of problem transferring furniture to that 3rd flr room, [COLOR="Green"]any suggestions where I can place the stairs? Should I go for a spiral staircase or just a good, ordinary staircase where the furniture can fit when brought up to the 3rd floor...

I'm planning to have two rooms on the 2nd floor...
and on the 3rd floor: a spacious, doorless, space with wood-railing on top of the stairs...
by the way, total approx. floor area for both attic & 2nd floor is 20 sq.meters...

[COLOR="Red"]Any good plans for this setup sirs/ma'ams?

Remember that you don't have a lot of space to work with, and things ALWAYS look more spacious on paper than when built. An "upper level
overlooking a lower floor" sounds all kinds of sexy, but reality can bite.

Good luck, plan carefully and be safe...

Thank you very much for the time you spent advising noobs like me Sir Horge... hope hindi po kayong magsawang tulungan kami... Si Lord na po ang bahalang magbalik sa inyo ng itinulong ninyo sa akin!

[COLOR="Blue"]"Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith." [COLOR="SeaGreen"]Galatians 6:2, 9-10

Thanks for the reply!

Well I guess Fielster would like to maximize some additional floor space considering the fact that his ceiling is kinda high, the flooring space he showed is somewhat a bit cramped, very limited space available in that floor.

You're right Mr (or Ms. Rosy) I presume hehe just wanna maximize extra floor space...
and regarding the flooring space, yup, am very used on staying in cramped spaces... 😀

Sir/Ma'am will appreciate any advises you can give my way!

Thanks a ton-load!

Thanks for the reply!

why attic? ganda ng ceiling height oh. loft ang ilalagay ko dyan. :goodluck:

God Bless you for replying woodworkboy!

I would definitely need advise from masters like you hehe :thanks:

Any good plan for a 20square meter 3rd floor loft?

Re: Thanks for the reply!

God Bless you for replying woodworkboy!

I would definitely need advise from masters like you hehe :thanks:

Any good plan for a 20square meter 3rd floor loft?

A 'loft' is essentially what I was proposing too, but I avoided calling it
one because even the term 'attic' was being interpreted differently.
However, now that you've said you want to divide the 2nd floor into
2 bedrooms, a loft wouldn't seem very workable. Neither would a
spiral staircase.

My point is, a lot of good intentions were wasted, because you didn't
provide much useful info for us to work with. As I said earlier: all I had
to base my comments on was one casual photo. I don't even know
the dimensions of the 2nd Flr space shown in that photo. I don't
even know where the entrance to that space is.

Post a scan/photo of your 2nd Flr Plan (showing at least the 2nd Floor
room in the photos, with dimensions and notes legible), or failing that,
sketch it and show dimensions, para naman PHM'ers giving suggestions
aren't giving them blindly.

Good luck.
🙂

Re: Thanks for the reply!

why not make 1 bedroom for the 2nd floor then an open bedroom in the loft? that would look modern regarding the size. then look for space-saving furnishings. Andyan ang Ikea. pwede mo gawin loft yung itaas ng 2nd floor bedroom. high ceiling would make you're place look spacious and more space for the air to circulate.

imo.

Re: Thanks for the reply!

You're right Mr (or Ms. Rosy) I presume hehe just wanna maximize extra floor space...
and regarding the flooring space, yup, am very used on staying in cramped spaces... 😀

Sir/Ma'am will appreciate any advises you can give my way!

Thanks a ton-load!

HEHEHEHE, Bro Fielster, Mr po, the Rosy is just an acronym from my first name and surname. It looks and sound so girlish but pure barakong pinoy po !!! LOL 😀

Re: Thanks for the reply!

HEHEHEHE, Bro Fielster, Mr po, the Rosy is just an acronym from my first name and surname. It looks and sound so girlish but pure barakong pinoy po !!! LOL 😀

OT:
Sir, surname nyo Sy? 😀