Re: Thanks for the reply!

why not make 1 bedroom for the 2nd floor then an open bedroom in the loft? that would look modern regarding the size. then look for space-saving furnishings. Andyan ang Ikea. pwede mo gawin loft yung itaas ng 2nd floor bedroom. high ceiling wook make you're place spacious and more space for the air to circulate.

imo.

@ Brad Fielster,

I would agree with this one but I'd rather call it a mezzanine, its a floor space above the second floor yet open and can see the second floor area. Just provide some railings so you don't fall off. You can use this space only as a sleeping area, just a mattress on the floor with some pillows then maybe a small side table and an electric fan will do. I know its gonna be for sure up there be very hot considering that it will be very close to the ceiling. May I suggest you install an exhaust fan to draw hot air inside the room out, this will help you a lot in terms of saving in electric consumption when your electric fan might be running the whole day just to cool the whole second floor and the mezzanine. Remember always, hot air rises. :rolleyes:

Oh I just hope your ceilings have some insulation installed inside between the roof and the ceiling, this will help you out in keeping your room cool and at room temperature.

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR PROJECT !!! 😉 🙂

Re: Thanks for the reply!

@ Brad Fielster,

I would agree with this one but I'd rather call it a mezzanine, its a floor space above the second floor yet open and can see the second floor area. Just provide some railings so you don't fall off. You can use this space only as a sleeping area, just a mattress on the floor with some pillows then maybe a small side table and an electric fan will do. I know its gonna be for sure up there be very hot considering that it will be very close to the ceiling. May I suggest you install an exhaust fan to draw hot air inside the room out, this will help you a lot in terms of saving in electric consumption when your electric fan might be running the whole day just to cool the whole second floor and the mezzanine. Remember always, hot air rises. :rolleyes:

Oh I just hope your ceilings have some insulation installed inside between the roof and the ceiling, this will help you out in keeping your room cool and at room temperature.

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR PROJECT !!!

Sir Rosy, you got the point there. btw, mezzanine is different from loft/attic. The term mezzanine can be used only if the intermediate floor is between those main floors since roofing is involved as it's ceiling, more appropriate term should be Attic (if unfurnished or mainly used as storage) or Loft (if it furnished/finished and used as room).

He didn't mentioned why need 2 bedrooms 2nd floor and a open bedroom for 3rd floor. kung small family lang naman, i would only make 1 bedroom for the 2nd floor. there is a huge difference in air circulation of a high ceiling. since open yung loft, mas hindi mainit yung both 2nd and 3rd floor.

Don't forget to doube the check the roof dahil hassle pag tumulo yung roofing nyo at ganyan ang ceiling na ginamit. For insulation, dont use cheap insulation materials. dont ever try it! hahaha 😀

Btw, Im not an architect but a frustated one. 😀

It's elementary my dear watson!?

However, now that you've said you want to divide the 2nd floor into
2 bedrooms, a loft wouldn't seem very workable. Neither would a
spiral staircase.

Yes Sir Horge... that's the cramped-up plan...

My point is, a lot of good intentions were wasted, because you didn't
provide much useful info for us to work with. As I said earlier: all I had
to base my comments on was one casual photo. I don't even know
the dimensions of the 2nd Flr space shown in that photo. I don't
even know where the entrance to that space is.

Sencia na po mga kapatid sa elementary project ko hehe

Post a scan/photo of your 2nd Flr Plan (showing at least the 2nd Floor
room in the photos, with dimensions and notes legible), or failing that,
sketch it and show dimensions, para naman PHM'ers giving suggestions
aren't giving them blindly.

Mga Kapatid, pwede na po ba ang mga ito?

Pagpalain po nawa kayo ng Dios sa dami ng natutulungan ninyo dito sa PINOYHANDYMAN!

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]"But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good." 2 Thessalonians 3:13

CLEAR as day...

HEHEHEHE, Bro Fielster, Mr po, the Rosy is just an acronym from my first name and surname. It looks and sound so girlish but pure barakong pinoy po !!! LOL 😀

MANONG Rosy pagpasenciahan n'yo na po, Wag po sana kayong magsawa sa akin hehe

Err... Loft?

why not make 1 bedroom for the 2nd floor then an open bedroom in the loft? that would look modern regarding the size. then look for space-saving furnishings. Andyan ang Ikea. pwede mo gawin loft yung itaas ng 2nd floor bedroom. high ceiling would make you're place look spacious and more space for the air to circulate.

imo.

Thanks a lot po for your very cherished opinion! I'm interested po sa plano ninyo...

So 2nd floor 1-bedroom (maybe our master bedroom) ---> is my imagination right?
one master bedroom with door and simple balcony by the staiirs with wood railing?

LOFT for the attic/3rd floor? I'm getting a picture of it in my mind
but is it possible na 2 rooms sa 2nd floor, a balcony with stairs going to the mezzonine-side 3rd floor with railings?

My Lady Jane wants 2 rooms 2nd floor and one-big space 3rd floor, possible for guest room but without doors, only stairs with wood railing hehe

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

Fielster,

Isn't the 2nd floor shown in your initial photos a lot smaller
than the 20m x 20m that your drawings imply?

🙂

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

Fielster,

Isn't the 2nd floor shown in your initial photos a lot smaller
than the 20m x 20m that your drawings imply?

🙂

Sir Horge is right. i assume that your is space is in rectangular shape. how come it is 20m x 20m? 😮

Garden Villas po ba yan?

nasa 20 sqm lang yata 2nd floor nyan based on the ads sa sulit.

kung gusto mo ng cramped 2nd floor, pwede dyan 1 master & 1 bedroom tapos sa labas nung room, stairs na (no more space).
yung loft mo naman yung buong ceiling ng 2nd floor gawin mo ng open space pwedeng study room, tambayan o guest room. patay ventilation dyan, Sir!

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

Garden Villas po ba yan?

Nice detective work, lol...
It sure looks like it's (half of) the duplex design at Sta. Rosa Garden Villas 3, Phase 5.
The photos fielster posted seem identical to those in the sulit ad, and here's one
from another source:

The reinforced-concrete-shell mode of construction (no columns or beams) gives an
added twist to my earlier concerns wrt punching multiple large, closely-spaced holes
in order embed the ends of the attic joists (as in nomastequila's example).

kung gusto mo ng cramped 2nd floor, pwede dyan 1 master & 1 bedroom tapos sa labas nung room, stairs na (no more space).
yung loft mo naman yung buong ceiling ng 2nd floor gawin mo ng open space pwedeng study room, tambayan o guest room. patay ventilation dyan, Sir!

A loft may not be possible, because of the way the existing stairway is oriented PLUS
the homeowner's requirement for two separate 2nd floor bedrooms:

The challenge here is that the existing stairway is a single flight, starting almost at the
front of the unit and ending almost at the very rear, on top of the ground floor T&B.
You can't dogleg a new stairway up to an "attic" without cutting off the second floor
rear window, and you can't place the "attic" stairway above the present one without
providing a space-consuming corridor alongside said stairs. I don't think that standard
treatments like a pull-down attic-ladder are applicable, but maybe they're willing to
accept the mechanical and traffic-issues with one. Dunno... but anyway:

The second floor looks like its a little under 4m x 6m.
Assume it's 4m wide.Take away what appears to be a stairwell around 0.90 wide, and
you maybe have 3m of floor-width left to play with. Run a code-minimum 0.90m wide
corridor alongside the existing stairs and you have 2m width left for the bedrooms
(each about 2m x 3m) which is a little tight, but doable.

The bad news with that, is that half the second floor has been consumed by stairwell
and corridor. The bedrooms will be pretty snug and cozy indeed.

The good news is that if he puts up light partitions to form the two small bedrooms,
the walls' studs and top plates will better support an attic, reducing the need for
large-section attic-joists. With limited floor-to-floor height, I don't think he should be
looking at a dropped ceiling. He could do the attic framing in lumber and space the
joists (multiples of .3m on center)to allow direct attachment of ceiling mar-ply to the
joists' undersides. It will require careful planning of ceiling electrical runs beforehand,
but then the whole shell seems to be lacking any electrical prep.

The attic would effectively be the largest space in terms of literal "floor area", but
much of it will be of limited use, where the ceiling gets too low... and there's that
little issue you touched on: attic ventilation.

That's my take as a homeowner with an architectural background.
My take as an architect however would be to replace those existing stairs with
something that allows more design freedom: the flight-up needs to end closer to mid
-way between the front and rear of the house, to allow slightly larger bedrooms and
yet still allow continuing the stairs all the way up to the attic. The new stairs would
have to have a steeper rise-versus-run than the homeowners might like, but they'd
get bigger bedrooms. It all depends on the actual floor-to-floor height, from ground
floor to second floor, and how hisgh each step can be before the homeowners find
it too steep a climb.

[COLOR="Red"]EDIT: I'm talking about something like this:

Front of the house is to the left of the above image.
No dimensions, because fielster didn't really provide any.

I shifted the main stairway towards the front of the house, so that first flight would
end closer to midway between the house's front and rear. This allowed me to bisect
the 2nd floor into two small bedrooms, outlined in red. The bedroom doors will need
glass transoms above, to provide some natural light for the stairwell. The stairs to the
attic, also outlined in red, may have to be an even steeper climb than the one below
them. A gap in the floor slab (where the flight of stairs originally ended) will have to
be plugged with new flooring (wood on steel or even new reinforced concrete slab).

[COLOR="red"]
AGAIN: treat the above sketch (sorry, posting from a laptop without a decent CAD
app) and all of my ideas with caution, as I don't have any measured drawing to
work with. Best-effort guesses lang yan.

There are excellent houses, both large and small, and this concrete shell can be made
a very cozy home, but only if the homeowners understand and accept the actual size
of the spaces involved.

horge, signing off, lol.

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

Bro horge,

A little OT here mga kuya !!!

I have been wanting to say this a couple of days ago but just forgot all about it. Since we have been giving out or extending our thoughts for bro Fielster, I have just realized and I am glad we have an active architect here sa PHM who is so willing to share some expertise to other members needing advice, same with other guys here who are active contractor and in the trade of fixing or beautifying our dream houses .

CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU AND TO THE REST OF THE GUYS who have been giving out advice, valuable advice for our new members in search of technical answer etc. All of you are an asset and a valued member of this forum.

I would like to salute you all and give praise for a job well done. :worthy: :clap1:
I do hope too to have the same sentiments from our Admins here. 😉

CHEERS TO EVERYONE :win:

If I can only thank you personally!

Fielster,

Isn't the 2nd floor shown in your initial photos a lot smaller
than the 20m x 20m that your drawings imply?

🙂

Sorry po kapatid na Horge... my weakness are numbers & measurements!

Tama po kayo nina kapatid na woodworkboy... [COLOR="Blue"]Garden Villas nga po! The correct measurements as you stated!
> 2nd Floor is 20sq.meters

Salamat po sa paghanap ng structure pics sa SULIT... at least the brethren here have an idea how the houses in garden villas were built...

The second floor looks like its a little under 4m x 6m.
Assume it's 4m wide.Take away what appears to be a stairwell around 0.90 wide, and
you maybe have 3m of floor-width left to play with. Run a code-minimum 0.90m wide
corridor alongside the existing stairs and you have 2m width left for the bedrooms
(each about 2m x 3m) which is a little tight, but doable.

The good news is that if he puts up light partitions to form the two small bedrooms...

What specific type of materials for light-partitions will I use Sir?
Sorry po if I need to ask newbie questions,
I'm really dependent on the advises of the brethren here,
pagpasensyahan nyo na po ako...

My take as an architect however would be to replace those existing stairs with
something that allows more design potential: the flight-up needs to end closer to mid
-way between the front and rear of the house, to allow slightly larger bedrooms and
yet still allow continuing the stairs all the way up to the attic.

well said kapatid... but I would have to literally make the ground floor to be reconstructed & re-arranged again,which I can't because of budget-constraints...
so check this pic again sir...
those divider walls around the stairs I would have removed & have railings placed as a substitute...

Noted all of these...

1.) So does that mean it's much better to do the [COLOR="SeaGreen"]2nd floor ceiling/attic floor framing in lumber? This is much appropriate mga kapatid?
As based upon Sir Horge's assessment and suggestion...

The reinforced-concrete-shell mode of construction
(no columns or beams) raises my earlier concerns with punching multiple large,
closely-spaced holes to embed the ends of the attic joists.

...the walls' studs and top plates will better support an attic,
> reducing the need for large-section attic-joists...

> With limited floor to floor heights, I don't think he should be
looking at a dropped ceiling.
[COLOR="Blue"]> He could do the attic framing in lumber...

and space the joists (multiples of .3m on center)
to allow direct nailing of ceiling mar-ply to the joists' undersides.

That will require careful planning of the ceiling electrical runs beforehand.

2.) What's the better plan for the room placements brethren?

2nd floor - 2 rooms; attic - 1 big space or...
2nd floor - 1 room; attic - 2 rooms

3.) Where in the 2nd floor can I have the stairs placed? the one going upto the attic...

I am ready to follow all the great advise stated by the brethren, kaya I beg of you Sirs na pagtyagaan ninyo lang po ako ng kaunti pa

Pagpalain po kayo ng Dios mga kapatid!
Salamat po sa patience at panahon! :thanks:

The Proper Use of Search Engines

Sir Horge is right. i assume that your is space is in rectangular shape. how come it is 20m x 20m? 😮

Garden Villas po ba yan?

nasa 20 sqm lang yata 2nd floor nyan based on the ads sa sulit.

Right on target kayo kapatid... thanx po for helping me scour the needed pics!

I know somethings wrong when I doodled those measurements... 20sqm nga!

Thanx po for the assist!

:sailor:

Re: If I can only thank you personally!

Fielster, I was editing my previous post just as you made your latest ones.
Check the sketch-plan I added to mine.

What specific type of materials for light-partitions will I use Sir?

mar-ply on 2x4 studs, rails and top plates would provide better load-bearing
(for the attic) than ply or gypboard on light-gauge steel channels.

I would have to literally make the ground floor to be reconstructed & re-arranged again,which I can't because of budget-constraints...

No, you would only need to demolish the existing stairs and replace them
with stairs that start closer to the front of the house. Again, see the sketch.
You could do the new stairs in RC or steel depending on cost or availability.
You would also have to patch a gap in the second floor slab, left by the
relocation of the original stairs, and you could use RC or wood.

RE: lumber vs. steel joisting for the attic -- it could go either way, but you
seem to have a workteam willing to go with wood, and the real point is to
maximize the floor-to-ceiling height of the bedrooms. A dropped ceiling with
aluminum hangers, furring, etc. can reduce that height by nearly a foot.

Good luck.
M'out!

2nd floor plan

[COLOR="Red"]EDIT: I'm talking about something like this:

Front of the house is to the left of the above image.
No dimensions, because fielster didn't really provide any.

I shifted the main stairway towards the front of the house, so that first flight would
end closer to midway between the house's front and rear. This allowed me to bisect
the 2nd floor into two small bedrooms, outlined in red. The bedroom doors will need
glass transoms above, to provide some natural light for the stairwell. The stairs to the
attic, also outlined in red, may have to be an even steeper climb than the one below
them. A gap in the floor slab (where the flight of stairs originally ended) will have to
be plugged with new flooring (wood on steel or even new reinforced concrete slab).

[COLOR="red"]
AGAIN: treat the above sketch (sorry, posting from a laptop without a decent CAD
app) and all of my ideas with caution, as I don't have any measured drawing to
work with. Best-effort guesses lang yan.

OK po... Salamat po Kapatid na Horge for the foreseeing eye on details...

According to the specs set by Sir Horge but still retaining the stairs... I can't have a new stair done since ok na po renovation ng ground floor & most of all, I have no budget for that anymore... Much as I wanted the design that Kapatid na Horge has advised but I really can't because of the reasons above...

Ito po yung na-imagine ko sa suggestions ni Sir Horge but the stairs I had to keep! Sorry po...

LUMBER vs STEEL FRAMES

RE: lumber vs. steel joisting for the attic -- it could go either way, but you
seem to have a workteam willing to go with wood, and the real point is to
maximize the floor-to-ceiling height of the bedrooms. A dropped ceiling with
aluminum hangers, furring, etc. can reduce that height by nearly a foot.

So does that mean it's much better to do the 2nd floor ceiling/attic floor framing in lumber? This is much appropriate mga kapatid?
As based upon Sir Horge's assessment and suggestion...

The reinforced-concrete-shell mode of construction
(no columns or beams) raises my earlier concerns with punching multiple large,
closely-spaced holes to embed the ends of the attic joists.

Originally Posted by horge View Post
...the walls' studs and top plates will better support an attic,
> reducing the need for large-section attic-joists...
> With limited floor to floor heights, I don't think he should be
looking at a dropped ceiling.
> He could do the attic framing in lumber...

and space the joists (multiples of .3m on center)
to allow direct nailing of ceiling mar-ply to the joists' undersides.

So LUMBER-JOISTING it is... do the attic floor/2nd floor ceiling USING LUMBER...

This is the most important thing that I will be deciding upon for this project...

So brethren...
will I go for the LUMBER-joisting frame for the 2nd floor ceiling / attic floor?
1.) So does that mean it's much better to do the 2nd floor ceiling/attic floor framing in lumber than steel frame? This is much appropriate mga kapatid?

As based upon Sir Horge's assessment and suggestion...

Re: BRETHREN I need HELP!

My sincerest apologies, i have been uberbusy with extending our terrace and starting a new business, smoking meats and baking sweets. I think you have been given great advice on here, experts, which i am far from... not being from here, i am not able to comprehend how people can make two rooms from a 24 sqm area including a staircase. That being said its obvious it can be done. I have a suggestion that i don't even know if its possible, but what about a ladder attached to the wall for access to your loft/attic/mezzanine? I label all three because its a nightmare getting proper terminology and if you will be inspected it could create problems at least it did with us as it was labeled mezzanine with some inspectors, while others call it an attic and to me its a simple loft, really if you will be getting permits which will be needed if you want to go pagibig or housing loan route, its best to get your prescription meds in order now. That being said my loft i am trying to attach images of is about 4 meters by 3.5 meters. lowest point from floor to ceiling is 2 meters high. Apparently i am having problems uploading images, if you want to see them perhaps you can email me at @yahoo.com">tibetraven@yahoo.com, will be happy to send them via email. Every time i try to upload photo it tells me i don't have permission to or am not logged in so i log back in and still gives me same message, have resized photo already and still not working so best to email if you really want to see photos.