Even during the cold months, our room at the second floor feels like an oven at noon. The problem is even magnified this summer because of the intense summer heat. The aircon can barely cool the room. The layout of the apartment makes it impossible for air to move in and out of the room.
I touched the ceiling just this noon and it really is very hot. Now I am thinking of putting insulation. Since it is a rented apartment, I plan to put an affordable, removable yet effective insulation.
I am thinking of putting those usual aluminum-foam insulation. But since I am sure I cannot access the roof itself or even the space between the ceiling and the roof, I plan to install it inside the room ans stick it to the ceiling.
Any suggestions? Alternative materials etc.
Thanks!
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
Type of roof? Type of ceiling?
Can you look through the ceiling access panels to see what the attic situation is.
Check attic ventilation. Soffit (eaves) vents blocked or nonexistent?
External wall type and orientation? Windows?
Amount of heat from wall and window vs. from ceiling?
Air leaks from windows, A/C, doors, etc.
A/C underpowered or needs repair/maintenance?
External shading, e.g., trees, awning.
Window blinds, curtains, tint.
Any insulation is best put in the attic. Try to arrange or get permission.
If foam, best with foil and with foil facing roof . Air gap important.
Notice how low the R-value is of the foam by itself without reflection (foil and air gap):
http://www.insulite.com.ph/insulation.html
Alternative or addition to foam would be mineral wool (rockwool), but that should definitely be in the attic.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
the aluminum insulation (with bubble and some with no bubble) wont work unless its inside the ceiling and there is a optimum gap between the roof the alum insulation and the ceiling it self
if you stick it to the ceiling it wont help. Conductive heat will pass from the ceiling and directly to the aluminum foil (hence the need for gaps). So now that your foil is heated it will now emit radiative heat down to the room. Aluminim reflects heat well but once it touches heat it will disperse heat too, hence if its attached to the ceiling it will disperse the heat quicker into the room.
The gaps i mentioned is to optimize the aluminum's properties. The gap between it and the ceiling will reduce conductive heat and the aluminum foil will reflect radiative heat from the roof back to the roof itself. It needs a gap from the ceiling as well as to prevent conductive heat and also have that airspace to act as barrier/void/buffer or whatever you call it.
my best bet is to attach an exhaust fan. inside the ceiling, The fan has to blow OUTSIDE the building. This reduces the heat buildup in the ceiling by encouraging air exchange. But this requires landlord approval. It should'nt cost too much
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
the aluminum insulation (with bubble and some with no bubble) wont work unless its inside the ceiling and there is a optimum gap between the roof the alum insulation and the ceiling it self
if you stick it to the ceiling it wont help. Conductive heat will pass from the ceiling and directly to the aluminum foil (hence the need for gaps). So now that your foil is heated it will now emit radiative heat down to the room. Aluminim reflects heat well but once it touches heat it will disperse heat too, hence if its attached to the ceiling it will disperse the heat quicker into the room.
The gaps i mentioned is to optimize the aluminum's properties. The gap between it and the ceiling will reduce conductive heat and the aluminum foil will reflect radiative heat from the roof back to the roof itself. It needs a gap from the ceiling as well as to prevent conductive heat and also have that airspace to act as barrier/void/buffer or whatever you call it.
my best bet is to attach an exhaust fan. inside the ceiling, The fan has to blow OUTSIDE the building. This reduces the heat buildup in the ceiling by encouraging air exchange. But this requires landlord approval. It should'nt cost too much
hmmm I see. I already informed my wife about this and she already told her office about the problem. No action until now.
I already knew about the exhaust fan. The building has 4 apartment units which I assume has a common attic area. The options are to have one big exhaust fan for the whole building or one fan for each unit which I think will not work.
I'll research more on the aluminum to see if it'll work. Maybe I can do an actual trial on small sheet.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
I live in a rented apartment also, and I am in the same predicament as fourtheboys96.
You guys mentioned putting an exhaust fan. Would that be the most practical solution? I wouldn't want to spend on removing all the ceiling and installing rolls of insulatiion on a house that I am just renting.
BTW, I recently saw an "Insulating Paint" made by flexseal. I wonder how effective that is. Will post a separate thread on that.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
I took a peek inside the attic and my suspicions were confirmed.
1. The 4 apartment units in the building have one common attic. The wall that divides each unit doesn't extend up to the roof. So that eliminates installation of an exhaust fan as it will be very unfair to us hehehehe.
2. The distance from the roof to the ceiling is quite short. My estimate would be 3 to 4ft from the highest point of the roof.
Now, I made up my mind (with wifey's approval) to just install a ceiling insulation inside the room. This is meant to be temporary since we don't own the unit. I'll remove it once we move to another place. Plus only our room will get the insulation. Other rooms wont have it.
My first option is the aluminum foam insulation. The brand Airofoam came up during my search. One sided type would be ok with the aluminum foil facing the ceiling (since it will be installed inside the room. I'll just install it with some thumbtacks or wood screws which ever works. My only concern is the toxicity of the foam material. The website says it is non-toxic but I want some further confirmation.
My second choice is the rubber mat that babies use. The idea came up because we have those in our house.
BTW, our room is 5.05m x 4.64m. And as I am typing this message, It feels like I'm outside the room even with the aircon and electric fan turned on.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
try Harvi Foil. http://www.tasmaninsulation.com/radiant-heat-barrier/
I got it from multi-line, effective and easy to install. I installed it inside the ceiling though, using staples.
If there is no way to install inside the ceiling, then under the ceiling would be ok I guess. May not maximize the effect, but it will still significantly cool down the room.
Dumb mistakes will always be dumb mistakes, unless . . . . you learn from it, and then it will be learning experience.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
I'll look out for that brand.
I agree that efficiency may not be maximized when not installed between the roof and the ceiling but I really have no choice.
It'll be still useful even during the cold months.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
1. The 4 apartment units in the building have one common attic. The wall that divides each unit doesn't extend up to the roof. So that eliminates installation of an exhaust fan as it will be very unfair to us hehehehe.
The brand Airofoam came up during my search.
One sided type would be ok with the aluminum foil facing the ceiling (since it will be installed inside the room. I'll just install it with some thumbtacks or wood screws which ever works. My only concern is the toxicity of the foam material. The website says it is non-toxic but I want some further confirmation.
Since all units probably have the same problem, how about sharing the cost of the exhaust fan, so all units can benefit? Or maybe owner can be persuaded to contribute?
If you will be attaching the radiant barrier directly to the ceiling despite the advice given in previous posts, the bigger concern would not be toxicity but loss of effectiveness and wastage of much of your money and effort.
Do web search for "radiant barrier air gap" if the need for air space is still not clear. You can have an air gap by suspending the foam below the ceiling, or using spacers.
Airofoam is the brand of Insulite Manufacturing Corp., whose website was cited earlier.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
if you are using the one sided aluminum foam i suggest having the aluminim facing the floor. IF it faces the ceiling it will encourage heat buildup in the foam due conduction, This is because it iwll be touching directly to the ceiling. Best is to have a non aluminum insulation if they have. Aluminum in this case is totally useless.
Heat these days are getting rather in the low humidity heat (where i am at) hence an evaporative cooler could be a better bet. the depot stores have this a famous brand is IWATA but there are many others.
Another is,,, fiberglass insulation, and sandwich in between your existing ceiling and another set of hardiflex (or gypsum) Gypsum being the more acoustic and insulative of the two.
you'll have to ask the supplier for thickness. And depending on the area of the ceiling this can be cheap and quick or still affordable but daunting task. This also means having to firgure out what to do with your ceiling lights...
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
if you are using the one sided aluminum foam i suggest having the aluminim facing the floor. IF it faces the ceiling it will encourage heat buildup in the foam due conduction, This is because it iwll be touching directly to the ceiling. Best is to have a non aluminum insulation if they have. Aluminum in this case is totally useless.
Heat these days are getting rather in the low humidity heat (where i am at) hence an evaporative cooler could be a better bet. the depot stores have this a famous brand is IWATA but there are many others.
Another is,,, fiberglass insulation, and sandwich in between your existing ceiling and another set of hardiflex (or gypsum) Gypsum being the more acoustic and insulative of the two.
you'll have to ask the supplier for thickness. And depending on the area of the ceiling this can be cheap and quick or still affordable but daunting task. This also means having to firgure out what to do with your ceiling lights...
the issue with the aluminum being useless also crossed my mind because I read its purpose is to reflect heat which will not be the case as you have mentioned. that is the reason those rubber mats used by toddlers and sold in the mall crossed my mind since we already have some in our house. my kid can just look at the ceiling then read whatever letter of number is in the design. hmmm . . . . now i'll think about it.
kaso pag dumating na ang tag ulan baka mawala na naman ito sa isip ko. hehehehe
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
Most ceiling tiles have tongue-and-groove edges for easier installation. You can choose from plain, embossed and patterned finishes. ..
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
I had success with retrofitting insulation into the attic.
I used the same aluminum insulation. First i used 1cm thick insulation, i cut it into squares that fit snugly between the pamakuan. Then i covered it with another layer (mix of 1cm and .5cm), nilapag ko over the kisame floor. I cut holes for ceiling supports, and made generous overlaps to prevent hot air seeping between and under the layers. Then i used a staple gun to anchor the insulation.
It works, the kisame is much cooler to the touch now. I also noticed a huge decrease in my electrical bill since i use aircon much less as a result. You just have to make sure that the insulation is snug, so that hot air doesn't transfer heat to the kisame by convection.
Is the aluminum useless? I think it reflects infra red. I installed the foam myself, working under very very hot conditions. Kahit madilim sa kisame, if you hold the insulation between yourself and the hot GI, it feels like opening an umbrella while under the hot sun. So i don't think it's useless.
The rubber mats for toddlers is more expensive than the insulation, btw. I'm not sure it's fire-resistant either, so i strongly suggest you not use that.
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
"the foam insulation should be snug fit"...
but the manufacturer of airfoil, my brand of double sided 1 cm insulation says otherwise..dapat daw hindi flat sa roofing yung foil..dapat me lundo...i dont know why but that is said and drawn on the installation manual..
its definitely cooler now...less use of aircon..and less frequenting the malls during summertime.
long live the foam insulation! har! har!
V
The devil will find work for idle hands to do.-Morrissey
Re: DIY ceiling insulation
"the foam insulation should be snug fit"...
but the manufacturer of airfoil, my brand of double sided 1 cm insulation says otherwise..dapat daw hindi flat sa roofing yung foil..dapat me lundo...i dont know why but that is said and drawn on the installation manual..
its definitely cooler now...less use of aircon..and less frequenting the malls during summertime.
long live the foam insulation! har! har!
V
the space between the roof and the insulation is to allow the aluminum to reflect back the heat which is not possible if the insulation is in direct contact with the roof.
BTW, I have yet to do it. Kinda busy with graduate studies.
