Re: jet pump alternative

@sir vivafoxpro

re: orocan cisterns, pwede kaya i-diretso ko na lang sa water tank yan submersible pump sir instead of orocan para ma-eliminate ko na pressure tank+pump setup?

medyo malaki nga yung 1hp/80gal pump+pressuretank na kinabit for a 5 person household, i think yung reason kung bakit ganun ang kinabit nila was dahil at first e deep well ang supply.

maraming salamat po ulit

I use a pump similar to this one:

Mine cannot handle sending the water to a higher level. My bathroom is the same level as the garden.

Yung question mo regarding the second floor bath, you can use the orocan to store the water sent up by the local water pressure. Pag dating ng gabi at wala ng pressure, the submersible pump inside the orocan will send pressurized water for showering. Medyo pangit tignan pero it does the job habang wala pa budget for an overhead tank.

Kudos kay Sir CamV for a well illustrated and explained solution.

Again, kung wala pang budget, orocan or any large water container will serve as storage when local water pressure is good and serve as a source for your jet pump pag mahina na yung pressure.

Kung may sariling orocan+submersible na yung second floor, pwede sa tingin ko ang hiwalay na orocan+submersible sa first floor.

Matagal ko na binili yung sa akin pero estimate ko mga P1,500 and isa. plus gastos sa orocan.

I have no idea sa gastos (labor+materials) pag nag "downgrade" ka sa 1/2 HP.

Pangalawa dito, yung submersible will be DIY (Do It Yourself), yung jet pump usually TWDI (Tubero Will Do It) wahehehe...

Good Luck Sir!

Re: jet pump alternative

hello! update lang po....

i was able to talk to our neighbor who happens to work in the local water district, sabi nya ok naman ang pressure most of the time, sa umaga lang daw pag weekdays at maraming pumapasok medyo mahina ang pressure, so nagpakabit ako ng parallel connection bypassing the cistern+pump+pressuretank setup ayon dun sa illustration ni sir camv. acceptable naman ang pressure hanggang 2nd floor pero yun nga as what he said, during the time between 6am to 9am e hindi kayang umakyat sa 2nd floor, so i need to manually close the valve para yung sa pressure tank manggaling ang supply, estimate ko siguro mga 10 - 12 times umaandar yung pump for that 3 hrs, i think this is better than running the whole pump system for 24/7. siguro naman kahit papano e mabawasan ang power consumption namin. downside lang is i have to do the bypassing manually, is there a possibility to automate that?

thank you very much ulit mga sirs sa mga suggestions nyo!

Re: jet pump alternative

@ seymorebutts,
I made an illustration based on my understanding of your set-up

These are the advantages of the modified set-up I suggest.
1. You dont have to manually close / open the isolation valves
2. If you have enough line pressure from the water district (20 psi or more) it will flow up to your 2nd floor, your pump will not cut-in because the pressure is above the pressure switch cut-in setpoint
3. If there is line pressure from the water district but not enough to overcome the head going to the 2nd floor, it will supply the pump suction. The pump will run but the power consumption will be lesser because there is suction head (a little push will mean lesser work for the pump).
4. Your water tank located on the ground will always be full and ready to supply the pump
5. You can use a small pump/booster pump ( probably a 1/2 HP) provided the pump head is at least 60ft (20 m). I've been using a 1HP motor in our province to supply our water requirement at a higher elevation (around 40m or 130ft) the nameplate total head is 48m. I am getting a decent water pressure. In your case I would assume that it is more than your requirement, unless there are simultaneous multiple users. In which case the pipe sizing should be adequate for the demand.
If you are going to change your pump take a closer look at the total head at the nameplate to be sure you are getting the right one for your needs

I agree that frequent start/stop of the pump consumes more power because the starting current of motor is normally 3 to 4x the running current. This is what you will experience if you are using a bigger pump than you actually need. If you want to lessen the start /stop interval you need a bigger pressure tank so that the pressure decay during use will be slower, or just get at smaller pump.

The disadvantage..
Like what was previously mentioned there is a possibility that your pump will suct dirty water in case there is no supply from the water district and the pump keeps on running. It is a major health concern that needs attention. You can address that if you will modify your pump controls by putting low pressure switch on the supply line that will serve as an interlock to automatically stop your pump.

With regards to installing additional water tank at your 2nd floor, I would suggest you ask for the opinion of a technical guy who can assess the structural strength of your bldg before installing additional load. HTH

Would recommend putting float switch in the cistern, so water pump will not run if there is no water in cistern. It is recommended to use magnetic contactor for water pumps and use NC/NO connection to connect float switch and pressure switch in series to actuate magnetic coil of contactor.

Re: jet pump alternative

hello! update lang po....

i was able to talk to our neighbor who happens to work in the local water district, sabi nya ok naman ang pressure most of the time, sa umaga lang daw pag weekdays at maraming pumapasok medyo mahina ang pressure, so nagpakabit ako ng parallel connection bypassing the cistern+pump+pressuretank setup ayon dun sa illustration ni sir camv. acceptable naman ang pressure hanggang 2nd floor pero yun nga as what he said, during the time between 6am to 9am e hindi kayang umakyat sa 2nd floor, so i need to manually close the valve para yung sa pressure tank manggaling ang supply, estimate ko siguro mga 10 - 12 times umaandar yung pump for that 3 hrs, i think this is better than running the whole pump system for 24/7. siguro naman kahit papano e mabawasan ang power consumption namin. downside lang is i have to do the bypassing manually, is there a possibility to automate that?

thank you very much ulit mga sirs sa mga suggestions nyo!

You can automate the opening and closing of your bypass isolation valve. I suggest you replace that with solenoid actuated valve (the coil will open and close the valve). Just like what LARRY said you can use a magnetic contactor with auxiliary contact to be used for opening and the valve. This is somewhat complicated if you are not very familiar with the wiring diagram of this set-up. I suggest you consult with an electrical technician with sufficient knowledge in motor control circuits. Otherwise you can just put a switch for the valve and locate it beside the pump controls for easy access.
Kung hindi naman eye sore pwede rin kahit 2 mahabang tali sa valve handle (ideal is ball valve) hahatakin pa-close at pa-open hehe.

Re: jet pump alternative

Hi
This is a good project hope this helps, I think you need the following;
24hr timer (wall plug type)
Float switch (as per Larry)
Contactor (220v coil and contacts)
NO solenoid valve (available in reticulation shops, bypass line)
NC solenoid valve (pump line)

I will try to describe the wiring as close as I can ( sorry no access to graphics)

On a ladder wiring of your 220v line
1st rung, series the timer contact, float switch NO and the contactor coil.
2nd rung, series contactor contact 1 and solenoid 1
3rd rung, series contactor contact 2 and solenoid 2
4th rung, series contactor contact3 and pump motor

Operation
Set the timer for the appropriate on/off times
As the timer closes the contact and the cistern is at level the contactor coil is energized.
The valves and motor simultaneously changes over and runs.

Adding a circuit breaker on the motor rung will protect if by any chance the float gets dodgy.

Cheapest way is to get two alarm clocks set clock1 on time & set clock2 off time, ask Inday to change over accordingly.

My piece.

Re: jet pump alternative

The way I understand it, basta meron check valve at the point where the local water enters, pressure will be maintained within the house piping.

Now if the pressure of the local water is 30psi, it will "force" itself into the house piping and the 20/40 pressure switch of the jet pump will not trigger to ON.

Once the local water falls below 20, jet pump kicks in to raise the pressure to 40.

At 40psi pump cuts OFF and pressure is maintained because of the check valve.

Sa tigin ko OK na yung original drawings ni Sir CamV less the manual valves with just the addition of a low water level switch on the cistern para hindi matuyuan yun pump.

Sino ba naman gusto matuyuan 😀

Sana po matulungan nyo dn po ako...Newbie lng po...

Mahina ang water supply galing main line.

Ganito po kasi yon :

Mahina po ang water supply sa area namin parang ga-ihi ng bata lang tapos twing madaling araw lang sya at kung minsan ay wala pa pag sabay2 nag igib ang mga kapit bahay. Meron po kami tangke ng tubig sa 3^rd floor. Dati malakas ang supply at pressure ng tubig kaya umaabot don at napupuno pero ngayon nga halos wala na.

Ano po ba ang solusyon para mapuno ulit at magamit ung tangke namin sa taas.At magkano po kaya ang aabutin. Ito po sana ang mga balak ko :

1. Bumili ng water pump ( booster pump )para humigop ng tubig sa main line.

2. Mag install ng underground tank para doon kukuha ng tubig ang water pump papunta sa tangke sa 3^rd floor.

Ano po ang magandang set-up para sa aming bahay. Sana po ay may maka-tulong.

Option 2 Mel

Sir...ilang hp po na water pump?? Brand??? Pra po sa underground water tank...concrete or stainless???

Salamat po s reply...

use goulds or grounfos brand, start your calculation with 60-80 gallons/person water consumption....

browse here ; https://product-selection.grundfos.com/front-page.html?time=1508476742448&qcid=228457729

Sir...ilang hp po na water pump?? Brand??? Pra po sa underground water tank...concrete or stainless???

Salamat po s reply...