Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

@andres_88,

your post is very informative and my pea-size brain digested all what you said.

as far as lab equipment is concerned, pyrex, a leading glass manufacturer has also been using this borosilicate glass in their range of test tubes and other glasswares since the 60's i believe.

but making them into microspheres and adding them to paints is another story.

😎

PS

but why ceramicoat with the flexseal? hardly any ceramic mentioned...ahh marketing jargons.

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

@andres_88,

your post is very informative and my pea-size brain digested all what you said.

as far as lab equipment is concerned, pyrex, a leading glass manufacturer has also been using this borosilicate glass in their range of test tubes and other glasswares since the 60's i believe.

but making them into microspheres and adding them to paints is another story.

😎

PS

but why ceramicoat with the flexseal? hardly any ceramic mentioned...ahh marketing jargons.

Oh thank you violaine for pointing out why no ceramics were mentioned. May I quote wikipedia on what ceramics is as follows:

A ceramic is an inorganic, non-metallic solid prepared by the action of heat and subsequent cooling.[1] Ceramic materials may have a crystalline or partly crystalline structure, or may be amorphous (e.g., a glass). Because most common ceramics are crystalline, the definition of ceramic is often restricted to inorganic crystalline materials, as opposed to the non-crystalline glasses.

What you might think of ceramics is that it is the same as the ceramic cookwares that we used in the house. But to say the least, ceramics are made in various forms - like ceramic microspheres. The term "ceramic microspheres" is the term used for this borosilicate hollow glass microspheres for the layman to understand.

Hmmm, marketing jargon. Ceramic microspheres or specifically the scientific name which is borosilicate hollow glass microspheres are used interchangeably. We just used ceramic microspheres because it is shorter and more readily understandable.

As for the pyrex glass made into microspheres then added to paints. 3M made a lot of research and development of this materials. You can google - 3M Glass Bubbles or you can watch a 2 minute video on youtube - just search 3M Glass Bubbles to better understand how it insulates your paint by simply adding microspheres in it.

Again, peace.

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

The first link confirms the general idea of what I want to do, though the type of paint is never mentioned. however, the second link looks like misleading advertising to me. its says: as a former advertising person i'll be wary of such claims. likewise, why would you say that..: are you are connected with this product?

In response to DiY. In my first post here in this forums, I showed a link of where this kind of coatings are used in the space shuttle. Quoted on wikipedia as follows: The thermal insulation tiles on the Space Shuttle are coated with a borosilicate glass. No misleading advertising intended and used. You can find detailed information on wikipedia with reference number 6 on the bottom.

And I dont know if el is connected with this product but I am.

Peace 🙂

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

[HTML]What you might think of ceramics is that it is the same as the ceramic cookwares that we used in the house.[/HTML]

exactly...ceramic knives as well.

now i know better.

😉

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

[HTML]What you might think of ceramics is that it is the same as the ceramic cookwares that we used in the house.[/HTML]

exactly...ceramic knives as well.

now i know better.

😉

Just here to help inform people violaine 🙂

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity

"In general, the duller and blacker a material is, the closer its emissivity is to 1.

The more reflective a material is, the lower its emissivity. Highly polished silver has an

emissivity of about 0.02.[1]"

white paint alone will help alot in the emissivity of a roofing material.

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity

"In general, the duller and blacker a material is, the closer its emissivity is to 1.

The more reflective a material is, the lower its emissivity. Highly polished silver has an

emissivity of about 0.02.[1]"

Exactly RUMARAGASA, here's another diagram to show how it works:

Photo taken from Cool Roof Rating Council - http://www.coolroofs.org/

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

can anyone start a thread about asphalt shingles?

i havent installed one but id love to know the pros and cons if installed here in the tropics.

i simply know that they are quite expensive considering the initial installation of marine plywood (3/4") then the mastic (asphalt) and finally the shingles.

i know also that asphalt shingles are short lived.

but they are aesthetically wow especially for my dream gazebo.

and cooler too.

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

white ceramic paint vs cheap white paint:

"After several months of consistently monitoring exterior and interior temperatures, we found:

….The structure with the ceramic coating showed that it reflected sunshine slightly better than

the structure with the white paint. The operative word here is slightly – at most, a few degrees "

read more from monolithic.com/stories/ceramic-coating-insulation-or-reflective-surface

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

re flexseal 'ceramic' paint -- hard to say whether it is misleading or promising. Not enough posted info on the effectiveness of the actual product, as opposed to ceramics in general.

Best to call them up and ask if they have and can provide:
- results and description
- of actual controlled tests
- of the actual product (not nasa shuttle tiles or other brands)
- done in the philippines (not by testing bodies abroad, e.g., astm, of similar materials abroad).

If you look into this, let us know what you find out.

So quad, if the tests for flexseal ceramicoat is not to be done by astm standards, crrc standards (cool roof rating council) and other testing bodies abroad - who do you suggest conducts the tests here?

I'll offer a few to get the ball rolling. Dost - they dont conduct this type of tests. Private testing facilities - also dont conduct this kind of testings. So who do we turn to? - tests abroad.

hope i answered some of your questions on flexseal ceramicoat.

Glad that there was a reply to my earlier post.

If you cannot get the government or an independent local facility to test the actual CeramiCoat product, then the answer should be obvious -- yourself (Campbridge). Campbridge may not be the most unbiased tester, but it would be better than what we have now, which is nothing (system-wise and of actual product). And if you describe your testing method(s) and results in enough detail, we consumers can make judgements on the validity of your testing.

There are lots of references to the underlying technology and foreign tests of the underlying technology, but what is missing is whether and how much this translates to performance of the actual system. It's nice to know about the materials technology but we need to know the system bottom-line. Is a CeramiCoat roof any better than an ordinary white roof and if so, how much better quantitatively?

May we know what testing Campbridge has done to quantify the bottom-line benefit of CeramiCoat? Is it just temperature tests? Multiple structures, one with CeramiCoat, another with ordinary white paint, etc.? If so, can you share a description of the experiment, measurements taken, etc.?

The next level of bottom-line testing would be energy. That is the real bottom-line, isn't it, but harder to do. Multiple identical (except for the roof paint) structures, measuring the energy required for A/C to maintain the same average interior temperature over a period of time. Has Campbridge done this kind of testing? Can you share the results?

white ceramic paint vs cheap white paint:
"after several months of consistently monitoring exterior and interior temperatures, we found:
….the structure with the ceramic coating showed that it reflected sunshine slightly better than the structure with the white paint. The operative word here is slightly – at most, a few degrees "

http://www.monolithic.com/stories/ceramic-coating-insulation-or-reflective-surface

Just to repeat the point made in this previous post: The link given comes to this conclusion:
"As can be seen from the graphs, there is little difference in temperature between the white paint and the ceramic coatings."

So this is the hurdle that CeramiCoat has to make, giving actual system test data (not just description of materials technology) to convince consumers that CeramiCoat provides significant benefit over ordinary white paint. So far I have not seen any bottom-line system test data from Campbridge in this regard.

I don't think testing of system bottom-line is rocket (or materials) science.

In absence of such data, I can only assume or speculate that bottom-line testing hasn't been done by Campbridge; or that it was done. but the results suggest that the benefit of CeramiCoat over ordinary white paint is not that significant, as the previous post noted.

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

Quad,

As a member of ASTM International, we adhere to ASTM test methods. Here is the technical specs of FlexSeal Ceramicoat as seen here: http://www.campbridge.com/Ceramicoat%20Insulating%20Paint%20Technical%20Info.html and consequently the product have been submitted to ENERGY STAR for labelling (it takes a long time to get labelled).

ASTM C236:

1. Scope

1.1 This test method, known as the guarded hot box method, covers the measurement of the steady-state thermal transfer properties of panels. In distinction to Test Method C177, which is primarily applicable to homogeneous samples, the guarded hot box method provides for the evaluation of thermal performance of building assemblies. This test method is suitable for building construction assemblies, building panels, and other applications of nono-homogeneous specimens at similar temperature ranges. It may also be used for homogeneous specimens.

1.2 This test method may be applied to any building construction for which it is possible to build a reasonably representative specimen of size appropriate for the apparatus.
Note 1-A calibrated hot box, Test Method C976, may also be used for the described measurements and may prove more satisfactory for testing assemblies under dynamic conditions (nonsteady-state) and to evaluate the effects of water migration and air infiltration. The choice between the calibrated or the guarded hot box should be made only after careful consideration of the contemplated use.

1.3 In applying this test method, the general principles outlined must be followed; however, the details of the apparatus and procedures may be varied as needed.

1.3.1 The intent of this test method is to give the essential principles and the general arrangement of the apparatus. Any test using this apparatus must follow those principles. The details of the apparatus and the suggested procedures that follow are given not as mandatory requirements but as examples of this test method and precautions that have been found useful to satisfy the essential principles.

1.3.2 Persons applying this test method shall be trained in the methods of temperature measurement, shall possess a knowledge of the theory of heat flow, and shall understand the general requirements of testing practice.

1.3.3 This standard does not purport to address all of the safety problems, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use.
Note 2-While various units may be found for thermal properties, the International System of units is used exclusively in this test method. For conversion factors to inch-pound and kilogram-calorie systems, see Table 1.

And quad if you need the confidential results of comparison for other paint brands - I will gladly show you the BASF report. Just call our office anytime you are free and look for me. Also, I am not telling people not to paint their roof with white elastomeric roof paint because they do reflect a lot too - I'm just saying that the addition of microspheres in Ceramicoat gives the paint more thermal emittance (emmisivity of 0.91) than white elastomeric roof paint as can be seen on number 3 of capabilities as shown here:

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

that says it all.amen.

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

Also, I am not telling people not to paint their roof with white elastomeric roof paint because they do reflect a lot too - I'm just saying that the addition of microspheres in Ceramicoat gives the paint more thermal emittance (emmisivity of 0.91) than white elastomeric roof paint

thank you for this sincere response and the link to the astec video which shows that

it is a must to cover all roofing joints with mesh/rubber paint

to protect and prolong the GI material.

practical DIY home maintenance

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

thank you for this sincere response and the link to the astec video which shows that

it is a must to cover all roofing joints with mesh/rubber paint

to protect and prolong the GI material.

practical DIY home maintenance

Youre welcome 🙂

Since were in the subject of Elastomeric Roof Paint, let me introduce you to our FlexSeal Roof Gloss Elastomeric Roof Paint.

It is available in 24 attractive roofing colors including white 🙂

And btw, the video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmYn3bQYgI8

Peace

Re: painting roof white to reduce heat inside the house

This is my first time to post here, and I am very interested in painting my roof white. Has there been an actual test done here in the Philippines, when it comes to the benefit of a normal white painted roof against a ceramic painted roof? It would be nice to see if there is a big difference between the two. I saw a video on youtube where a wall was painted with a normal white paint and another side was painted with a ceramic type paint. They were able to show a difference of 10 to 14 degrees Celsius difference. Any added information of available Philippine data would be appreciated.

Thanks.

"You turned off your lights, now paint your roof white." 😀