Re: Project estimate question

Is this your very first project undertaking? Are you a licensed Architect already or under board? Most clients always complain how expensive their contractors are but the truth is even if it is not their first time to build they still couldn't figure out how to workout their costing. In fact, they are their own worst enemy being poor estimators. Any profit whether 10% or 100% is real profit if it is realized at the end of the project. The problem is not being able to fight for what you deserve for fear of losing the deal and almost always you wind up as the loser giving in to most of the unreasonable demands or requests of the client. Do not sell yourself short. If you know you are capable of delivering good service and quality results therefore do not be afraid to ask for what is right for your business. There are a lot of lousy contractors running about but there are only a few contractors who happen to be the Architect cum Builder and Project manager at the same time. This alone gives the client an edge in the deal as they are paying the services of 3 persons for the price of one. I have been in the construction industry for more than 20 years and I don't accept clients with high quality demands but small wallets. Things just don't work out that way. You'd be lucky to make it alive with those clients and 99% of contractors I know who gave in to those deals wished they never accepted them. Currently, our build budget guide is at 45K to 60k per square meter for premium materials, Granite stones, Solid hardwood floors, etc. It even goes higher nowadays with the influx of beautiful European products like Italian tiles, German stones, American hardwood, etc. At the price you quoted it looks like you are headed for disaster. FYI, there are those who think they can work with 30-35K/sqm. but for me it always feels like you will never get very far from where you started at these rates. That's where some people feel like they are just surviving instead of thriving in their business. Just my two cents.:)

Re: Project estimate question

thanks a lot po Sir Willy , i appreciate your response, medyo nagulat ako don sa 40-60k,Di pa po ako nag take ng board thoug kahit papano may experience narin ako sa mga project na ganito at napapasama sa mga projects ng tito ko na contractor but this is my first time to work with high end project like this, maliit lang naman yung bahay nasa 125 sq m building area lang at may plan na alloted na yung developer dun sa mga model houses, so partly part ako ng design kasi ako yung mag dedesign ng interior space at kaunting modification sa facade, demanding po yung client gusto niya granite stones sa flooring at modular kitchen with stainless steel countertop at plano ko na ring gumamit ng mga mdf boards kasi nakikita ko yung mga works niyong mga expert dito.currently na meet ko na yung client at binigyan ko na sila ng rough estimate base nga dun sa 30 per square meters at 3.8m yung cost binigay ko sa bahay, problem is namamahalan daw sila nga at plano pa nilang magpa bid, gusto nga nila i libre ko na sila sa landscaping since landscape contractor kami sa ayala. pagka bigay nung mga copy ng mga plans mag poprovide na ako ng detailed estimate sir, i really have no idea what could be the outcome hehehe. pero yun nga ang plan ko maglalaan ako ng 2.8m sa construction at finishes then 400k sa contingencies at miscellaneous fees then the remaining will be my profit.

Re: Project estimate question

medyo nagulat ako don sa 40-60k,
[COLOR="blue"]Don't be surprised, the price index of materials move about 17% per annum and money cost fluctuate as well not to mention our recent battle with port congestion costs and power rate adjustments. Hindi lang naco-consider ng mga contractors ito kasi matrabaho kwentahin pero and mga matibay na contractors ay yung makwenta kasi di sila payag ng lugi ang project or at least they make sure more than break even. Come to think of it, hindi tayo pumasok sa business na ito to barely make it above break even di ba?

maliit lang naman yung bahay nasa 125 sq m building
[COLOR="Blue"]Maybe so but the client is building it as if it were a high end project so it won't really come out cheap, at least not in the head of the owner so who's going to pay for that in the end? You, of course by way of discounts and negotiated freebies.

demanding po yung client gusto nina granite stones sa flooring at modular kitchen with stainless steel countertop

[COLOR="blue"]This is an indicator of what I am talking about. The dreadful "I want This and I want that but I have a small budget, Kaya mo? May nag quote nga ng mas mura pero gusto ko isa nalang kausap ko. Boom! "

problem is namamahalan daw sila nga at plano pa nilang magpa bid, gusto nga nila i libre ko na sila sa landscaping since landscape contractor kami sa ayala.

[COLOR="blue"]Client's ask for dirt cheap prices for world class works. How does that work? You are only given a small down payment with a progress work type billing/collection and yet they expect you to subsidize some of the expenses of their build. How else do you think could you earn from this project not to mention you have to compute for your cost of money 'coz the project may take awhile to finish and collection will surely drag?

Just my two cents!

Re: Project estimate question

i do agree with what willy has stated, most owners will plan and ask for everything and when they get a quotation, the normal response is mahal and will bargain on everything to reduce the price. i'm not a contractor, but being a professional also, i do understand that you need to pay for no sakit ng ulo, build the house based on the specs, and built it on the agreed schedule. on the other side, owners, like me, would also expect that the contractors price will not be that to exhorbitant noh. for me to review if the quotation is right, i simply ask them for a detailed bill of materials of the major items in the construction (rebar, cement, gravel, sand, lumber, roofing) + all the finishings that i require with or without the price. added to this is the work schedule on a weekly basis. with this 2 things, as an owner i will be able to make a sound judgement if the price is just right and within my budget. sad to say, most of the contractors i approach and those who approach me could not provide me those items, all they do is just give an amount per sqm. as an owner, how can i make a sound judgement from it? some contractors think that just because its 1 house, its not worth their time to prepare all the info required by the owner. this is really sad as how do you treat someone as a professional if they don't act like a professional? building a house is like a business, its based on cost and the benifit (no hazzle) the owner will derive from giving it to the contractor yun sakit ng ulo 🙂 he he he ... added to this, when you start mentioning penalty clause based on schedule, most will not agree or back out totally. its a business decision, you expect me to pay this much, i also expect you to deliver the house on time, if not, then you compensate me. as a professional myself, you should "walk the talk" kasi nga any alterations sa specs, the contractor will also ask for additional paymt if its going to be costlier ... in the end, owners and contractors should be professional enough to know their responsibilites and not just look at it as a simple job of building a house ... my advice for owners who have a tight budget, like me, and who loves DIY, take a 6-month leave from work and get a good foreman and workers and just do it yourself 🙂 ... its what i'm doing right now, it will really test your skills in project management and you get to learn and enjoy all the problems of constructing a house ... literally everything, ako safety officer, QA for materials and work, project manager, estimator ng materials, canvasser, etc 🙂 ... yun foreman ko will just implement and supervise all the things we discuss weekly or daily ... those are the things an owner is paying the contractor to do the work ... sabi nga ng misis ko, para ka din nag wo-work, stress ka pa rin ... sagot ko, ok lang itong stress na ito, kasi i'm doing it for myself and its nice feeling to see everything is on schedule and within budget as of today 🙂 ... knock on wood ... cheers

Boo!

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Re: Project estimate question

I'm all for how Boo approached his build but the problem is only a very small percentage of clients are as diligent. Both the client and the contractor should establish a solid ground for the terms and conditions of their contract and live by their agreement till the end of the project. True that some contractors are negligent with their business commitments because they lack the foresight to anticipate and put contingencies in place. They assume that prices will be stable all throughout their build and never compute for the smallest expenses or disregard them as "minor" effect on their overall budget. Scrape the pavement of wasted cured cement and there's money there. The average construction worker will spend 5 hours of effort and 3 hours of disguised playtime (Chikahan, kantiyawan at tawanan) on the site. 30% of the work force that report for work are usually 15-30 minutes late and it usually takes another 15 minutes for them to really get their hands on their work. Oh and how about the excessive material orders, nails lying all over the place, dried half consumed paints and varnish plus incorrectly cut tiles and wood that has been used to fuel their coffee pots. See, if you are not makwenta then your workers maybe "sipping" your profits or throwing them in the trash bin altogether. I'm just cautioning the TS of some of the realities he will face in the event that he takes on a deal of w/c he perceives as " difficultly budgeted with High Quality results". Hats off to Boo! To the TS, Good luck and hope everything works out for both you and the client.

Re: Project estimate question

this is an interesting question in fact...as I am going to build a house of nearly the same lot size sometime a bit later.

I will be the owner and part builder...I guess, I will make only about 10% of the final finishing touches...but this 10% is "time" intensive" as I don't have the luxury (and well being) to have that "6 months leave" hehehe...

great inputs from a good friend (Bro Willy... its been a long time!)..and from Boo..

will be a lurker for this thread from now on...hope it goes well with the "ThreeManJobber"-JohnyBlaze!

Re: Project estimate question

what willy has said is true, about the amount of waste being generated in the site ... i see it everyday from day 1 which is why as the owner and project manager 🙂 its imperative that you minimize waste like ... reviewing the material estimates every week based on plan and actual usage to identify waste, providing the cutting list for the rebars (most expensive), gathering the used lumber and instructing and watching everyone to use it first before using the new lumber. on my part, i gather all the scraps everyday and put it in 1 area for them to reuse later. as what willy said, its money down the drain if you don't do your best to minimize waste at the site ... as an owner with a tight budget and paying for everything, if i don't do anything to control cost, its me whose going to loose in the end ... cheers

Boo!

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THanks for your inputs sir willy and sir boo, im happy to learn from you experts here, sa tingin ko things got worse ,earlier i mentioned 3.8 million but now is reduced to 3.5m , nagustuhan naman nila ang presyo at 3 times na rin kami nag meet, the client expressed her confidence to my capabilities at sabi niya ako ang priority niya but last night sinabi niya sakin na nagpa second opinion siya at nagpa estimate ng bago sa iba, masyado siyang mabusisi na pati yung square area na ginamit ko at yung square area na ginamit nung bagong bidder is pinagkukumpara niya, i said last price ko na yung 3.5 it won't change kahit na mag quote ng mura yung bago niyang bidder, i'm losing hope at nawawalan narin ako ng gana, kasi siya na mismo ang nagsabi na priority niya ako at may pinagsamahan narin naman kami nung client kahit papano, ang kinakasama ng loob ko in case ba na mag bigay ng mas murang quote yung kabila na maliit lang naman yung difference sa estimates ko bakit hindi pa niya sakin ibigay

I am not a builder or anything close to it. Pero ang advice ko ay "Let it go, let it go......" kung hindi ka kumportable.
Be professional about it. Walang samaan ng loob kasi baka in the future maging client mo uli sila or yung mga friends or relatives nila.
UNLESS willing ka mag sacrifice financially to gain experience.

Tama ka Brod fourth, handa naman ako sa mga ganyan kung hindi niya sa akin i award yung project eh wala ganun talaga no hard feelings, for now hinihintay ko nalang talaga final decision niya, nagawa ko na rin yung part ko nag provide nako ng detailed 3 page estimates, na explain ko na rin sa kanya yung consequences nung gusto niya tulad ng sinabi nila sir willy, mga demanding na client na may shortage sa budget won't work, inexplain ko na rin sa client na wag siya masyadong aasa sa pinakamura since may compromise sa quality. hayyy di bale na, may mga ongoing at incoming project naman ako.