Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

yung cordless makita drill drivers ko, Nicads lang ang battery...since 1998 pa mga ito..naghohold pa ng charge like new till this time..anyway..sabi naman kasi till 1000 charge before mag show ng signs of aging..bka less than 100 times ko pa lang na charge.

and thankfully, i dont need to buy yet the new cordless makita lithium ions pegging at around 7k each..

mabigat ang nicad? syempre naman...pero braso naman ng lalaki braso ko..hehe

good for those starting to buy cordless tools...newer types of batteries make these tools very light, easy on the wrist, small footprint.

at a price.

eh..me memory issue ba ang nicads? wala yata...afaik experience wise.

tia

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

The reason could probably be because of the quality of the cells. I've seen Dewalt Ni-Cads performing very well against some Li-Ion tools. Probably because the Ni-Cad batteries were made in Japan and for sure would be of great quality, in my opinion.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

Yung luma kong 12v nicd drill , re-pack ko yung battery using LiFePO4 cell from my RC stuff. ganda ng performance. 🙂

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

Yung luma kong 12v nicd drill , re-pack ko yung battery using LiFePO4 cell from my RC stuff. ganda ng performance. 🙂

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

there really isn't a better battery, they all work fine. they all have shelf life, they also have discharge rate. but when you say:

Quote:
second hand, or old stock lion likewise are suspect. lion has shelf life, it deteriorate. quicker than mh it seems

.
the sweeping statement regarding Li-ion is wrong. Simply bec, Mh deteriorates faster and losses charge faster also.

There is no doubt whether Li Ion batteries survive more charge cycles, and hold their charges better. But that's not the point - the original context of this thread is battery choice for a bargain drill is it not?

Li Ions suffer capacity degradation even if unused, as my earlier links pointed out. The same can be said of any battery, but that point is particularly emphasized for lithium ion batteries, and qualified for mh. It's reasonable to conclude that the age-related degeneration is more of an issue for lion than other types.

Aging is a concern with most lithium-ion batteries and many manufacturers remain silent about this issue. [COLOR="Red"]Some capacity deterioration is noticeable after one year, whether the battery is in use or not. The battery frequently fails after two or three years. It should be noted that other chemistries also have age-related degenerative effects. This is especially true for nickel-metal-hydride if exposed to high ambient temperatures. At the same time, lithium-ion packs are known to have served for five years in some applications.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/is_lithium_ion_the_ideal_battery

Hence my assertion: for bargain items, or occasional-use items, nimh/nicd might be a better choice.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

Hence my assertion: for bargain items, or occasional-use items, nimh/nicd might be a better choice.

what if it gets used regularly? bargain is also relative imho....

but for what ts worth you are probably correct and I rest my case....

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

A very informative thread.

So if you're a frequent user Li-Ion is the way to go. Lightweight so there is less strain on the arms. The relatively shorter shelf life isn't much of a disadvantage because its going to be used a lot before it degrades.

NiCd is for "home" use. Weight doesn't matter much because you're going to use it only occasionally. And since the tools will spend most of its life in storage, longer shelf life is really a must.

Makes perfect sense to me now.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

Thanks for the clarification, Timb. I had always regarded Li-Ion as superior to Ni-MH and had started to doubt myself on initial messages in this thread.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

In my experience in seeling/offering these kind of tools Most of the times, kinds of batteries doesnt matter..
What matter most of the time? Here it is....
Can afford or richy and serious,elite hobbyist : They Go for LITHIUM
Mid hobbyist-can afford one but want to save- wise one" : Go NiMH
Less budgeted, students, starter and just want to have some low cost DIY cordless tool: They Go for NiCad -"pang bahay lang naman daw"
Just for Info..

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

In my experience in seeling/offering these kind of tools Most of the times, kinds of batteries doesnt matter..
What matter most of the time? Here it is....
Can afford or richy and serious,elite hobbyist : They Go for LITHIUM
Mid hobbyist-can afford one but want to save- wise one" : Go NiMH
Less budgeted, students, starter and just want to have some low cost DIY cordless tool: They Go for NiCad -"pang bahay lang naman daw"
Just for Info..

Probably because they are not aware of the technical details. In which case the default deciding factor is the price.
And with that comes "its more expensive so it must be better."

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

That's why I fancy the "the waltz" kasi their new Li-ion batteries (except the 20VMax series) could also be used by their Ni-MH/Ni-Cad XRP series as long as it fits the slot. So if you have a new kit with Li-ion batts, you could buy 2nd hand/new tools as you can use your current batts on them as well.

Great thinking.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

In my experience in seeling/offering these kind of tools Most of the times, kinds of batteries doesnt matter..
What matter most of the time? Here it is....
Can afford or richy and serious,elite hobbyist : They Go for LITHIUM
Mid hobbyist-can afford one but want to save- wise one" : Go NiMH
Less budgeted, students, starter and just want to have some low cost DIY cordless tool: They Go for NiCad -"pang bahay lang naman daw"
Just for Info..

I guess by that you classify me to belong to the "Can afford or richy and serious,elite hobbyist" because I prefer the Li-ion. Thank you.
I understand the position that others cannot, would not or will not save money to buy what they want because they seem more expensive initially and would buy the cheaper more prone to replacement, buy another since it is cheaper, wait for replacement when you need it most kind of tool. but that is the wrong mentality imo, if you want a drill/driver and don't want to spend so much, get a good quality screwdriver and a decent quality corded drill (this is cheaper). If you want it cordless, then batteries will die (its a fact) and is not a good investment for "pang-bahay use". The difference may lie in the tool being a want or a need.
The way we might perceive things would greatly improve what we do, and is reflective of who we are.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

+1. Get a cheaper more powerful corded drill if you want to make holes. In the end, the cordless version is nothing but a glorified screwdriver.

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

Guys,

Allow me my "2 cents" and 'throw a spanner in the whole thread discussion. Pls, take note, this is
my experience.

1. NiCad - is the older type of rechargeable batt. and it is usually cheaper to purchase.
It suffers from the 'memory effect' which is if a set of batts are used Eg., used only up 50 % of it's charge and then is re-charged (to full) over and then again ... etc., the NiCad batt. will 'remember' only the 50% charge and then in use, it will go 'flat.' So it is best to run the batt till it is flat and then recharge to 100% always.
# of charge cycles also I believe is less than the other types.
A friend of mine, an avid photographer who had SLR cameras w/motor drives told me that he preferred NiCads because they seem to perform better than the NiMh ones. The NiCads always gave him the DC current (amps)
better than the NiMh, thus his motordrives worked better, faster and lasted longer.
It is said that problematic 'flat' NiCads can be revived using some technique, and in my experience, some do and most don't.

2. NiMh - the more current type of rechargeable batts, it is supposed to not suffer from the 'memory effect' of the NiCads, so you can charge and re-charge at anytime. This seems to be true in my experience and these types seem to last much longer. I have NiMh batts I bought in 2002 and still use them, but current wise, they all degrade after a while. I've used Eveready, GP, Sony, Powerbase and they are all the same, good for the first year or so, but they degrade (amps wise) but all re-charge to full voltage w/o problem.

3. Lion or Lithium ion batteries - my experience is only w/my Mac laptop use. I am always told NEVER TO KEEP YOUR LITHIUM BATT FLAT [DEPLETED] FOR A LONG PERIOD, ALWAYS RE-CHARGE RIGHT AWAY. This will degrade the battery in the long term. It suffers no memory effect, and the # of charge cycles is the best of the lot.

FYI, I am now using the Sanyo ENELOOP (w/minimal drain while in storage for many months). Don't know if it is NiMh or Lion, but it is great. I lost my Maglite w/Eneloop AA batts in it for almost 3 months, and then found it again, and it lit up just perfect and strong. All the other brands now are lousy PERIOD.

Generally, when using rechargeables, one should always use it to depletion and then recharge to full, that is the good general rule. If you can, and you should, specially the Lion type batts, every 2 weeks/monthly, use the batts till they are flat and then charge to full and then again use it till it is flat then re-charge to full again, this will 'condition' the batts for the long haul.

And here is the big spanner in the works and I believe this applies to the manufacture of rechargeables.

question: ever buy rechargeables that right away go flat, not recharge, or has the voltage but no amps ?
How is it that the Mars rover (the most recent) just stopped working way beyond it's (batts) projected life ?
Are you familiar w/classifications like, home or light duty (cycle), hobby, professional, industrial, military grade
equipment ? What about the NASA grade of batts ???

1. Manufacturers of light bulbs, LEDs, and rechargeables make these items in 'manufacturing runs' or batches of tens/hundreds of thousands and then from these batches, they take samples and test them to destruction. Some batches are 'excellent' w/ very few failures or lemons, some 'good' (w/a failure rate normal based on their calculations/projections)and others 'fair' (below expectations,)... AND THEY SELL THEM ALL TO THE HIGHEST BIDDER !!! The 'junk' batts get sold for cheap but for some reason they fail and if you just have one or two in a battery pack go bad, the whole pack is practically useless.

Guess why some batt packs are more expensive then other brands, specially the real cheap China made tools !!!
Have you ever seen the rip-off NiMhs that are 2,400 milliamps that are so cheap but they are light as a feather ?

So all the discussions in this thread has to take into account this simple fact. Good brands tend to by the 'class a' batches of batts (whatever type of batt), at a higher price and sell them for a much higher price and over-all they tend to last longer then the cheaper brands.

The general rule is: " If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys !" but being the Pinoys that we are, we try to land a real bargain w/some surplus item or what...and we hope for the best.
All in all, whateveritis, just as long as you learn, try out, experiment and remember, (burned or not) you will not go wrong later.
just my two cents !

Cheers to all for an excellent thread, vitriol notwithstanding 🙂

Re: Batteries for Cordless drills

Ive seen the word vitriol again..What is it?
dictionary says
Vitriol: Bitterly abusive feeling or expression
🙂